DERBY

[rtawton]

PMW wrote that she believes that GSP's are unlikely to be competitive in current Retrieving Trials because the standard has been raised significantly since Ruvalan Homah was successful in two Nationals. I beg to differ since, in my experience, success is more a product of the animal's training regime and the dedication and/or skill of the handler rather than being linked to a specific breed. I have personally had the opportunity to work with a number of GSP's, a Brittany Spaniel, a Golden Retriever and several Labradors. This experience base has convinced me that , regardless of breed, the dog's training regime has to be tailored to suit the individual needs of each animal. There is little doubt that over time the standard of dog work required to be successful has increased signifcantly, especially in the area of blinds and advanced water work. These increases have placed even more emphasis on the need for the handler/trainer to be a teacher and to be extremely analytical and thorough in every facet of training. These points were repeatedly stressed during the recent Eckett Seminar. [/quote]

[Prue Winkfield]

Recently I was discussing the falling numbers in rials with a young friend who is comparatively new to the sport and does not own a computer. His suggestion was along the following lines:

That we do have a pass system for NRD and RRD. To gain a NRD the dog would have to obtain 'pass' points in (say)10 trials judged by (say) 5 different judges. RRD along similar lines but as, in Victoria, we do not have many Restricted stakes it might have to be 5 or 6 trials judged by
3 different judges. As for the WA proposition for AA, a simlar system could apply as long as to obtain a RTCh the dog must win two AAs, or Championships.

This might not help NSW with its Restricted problem but if this is combined with Bob's suggestion of dogs being allowed to do two runs (at least) and the judges judging to a standard, it should help. As someone pointed out, the problem is not experienced AA handlers putting their young dogs through, it is how to encourage new and keep existing triallers in the sport - not necessarily getting everyone into AA.

Having attended Bill Eckett's excellent seminar, it seems obvious to me that our AA is moving towards the US field trial standard (a long way to go though!). Unlike the US, we do not have hunt tests which appeal to people who do not have the dedication or the dog to reach RtCh standard but who want to have fun with their dog and not play for 'sheep staions'.
Somehow, we have to cater for both to keep our sport alive!

[Pat Thorn]

Recently I was discussing the falling numbers in rials with a young friend who is comparatively new to the sport and does not own a computer. His suggestion was along the following lines:

That we do have a pass system for NRD and RRD. To gain a NRD the dog would have to obtain 'pass' points in (say)10 trials judged by (say) 5 different judges

What we could do is model the title system along the lines of Obedience, where you need 3 passes of 170 points or more for any of the 3 classes, CD, CDX and UD. A dog does not have to win the ring to qualify for these titles, only pass with 170 points or more.

The same could be done for retrieving where for novice it could be 5 trials of greater than 132 points (80% of 165 points), and as Prue points out by at least 3 different judges. All Age being a much harder event could be reduced to greater than 120 points. The titles gained could be NRD, RRD and ARD (All Age retrieving Dog). The RT CH to remain the same as it is now being the premier title to be gained.

As can be seen the retrieving situation is that much more restrictive which I'm sure puts people off and we never see them again. No wonder Obedience competitions are that much more popular.
The bulk of the retrieving trial fraternity are just thumping their head against the proverbial brick wall.
The argument that "it's been this way for ages" just does not apply if we want retrieving to continue.

[Bill Bailey]

Have been following with interest the ideas put forward as to ways of encouraging and sustaining participation in Retrieving Trials, possibly by introducing a Derby Stake.
My suggestion would be to leave existing framework as it is, subject to the following changes.
( 1) Once a competing dog has won his limit of stakes at a particular level he can still continue to "compete" at that level but cannot be awarded a place in a trial at that level.
( 2) Points awarded by the judge in competition to each dog are carried forward, say in a "Novice and a Restricted Point Score Competition" for each calendar year.
(3) Judges to be advised as to which dogs are not eligible to receive an award. The work of such dogs to be considered in awarding points to competing dogs.
It could well be that many "starters" who drop out, would thus have an incentive to continue on.
For example a reasonable Novice or Restricted dog could compete all year and never place in a trial. Such a dog could be good enough to finish all or most runs at his level.and win the " Point Score" for his level.
Others may simply want to "compete" for practice, on runs they could never duplicate for themselves.
Some may be quite happy to stay at a particular level as they do not have the time for training or desire to compete at a higher level.
This Point Score Competition could be started purely as a form of recognition and reward for the dedication of those who will probably never get past Novice or Restricted.
Each Club could run its own point score with suitable trophies to be awarded at the end of each season. This would be entirely separate to the awarding of Championship Points towards title of R T CH.



This could achieve the following:-
Good dogs can continue to run at that level to gain experience before moving to the next level.
Handlers who for whatever reason, do not want to run at a higher level can still enjoy running at a lower level.
Running good "non-competing" dogs could help judges to maintain a satisfactory standard of work to judge to.
Most experienced judges would agree that the degree of difficulty of a run, cannot be known until good dogs have completed the run. Very often runs which appear to be "a piece of cake" are found to be surprisingly difficult at the time the run is attemped. Others that look "easy" are found to be surprisingly difficult.
It would allow non-competing dogs the pleasure and satisfaction of continuing to run their dogs and build their "Retrieving point score" total.

[Peter Betteridge]

I have noticed that the NSW gundog society held a restricted sweepstake on saturday15th march judged by Maureen Cooper. I applaude the gundog society's decision to do this. The AC T gundog society has followed suite and is holding a restricted sweepstake on may 5th. the ACTGS has taken the far reaching step of opening participation to all dogs that have never finished an all age.ANOTHER EXCELLENT IDEA Personally I would like to see this extended to include all non retrieving trial champions. We may be getting closer to Bill Bailey's excellent and very practical idea of formulating a point score to run concurrently and in conjunction with our existing format. Bill's idea requires no rule changes and tallys can easily be kept on this site.Graeme Parkinson has kindly offered to keep the tallys and donate a trophy On behalf of the AWRC staff I will also donate trophies if the states becide to run with the idea. lets hope our RAFT committee supplies us with some leadership!

[Peter Betteridge]

It is now in the middle of August and it is interesting to note that in NSW a "sweepstake event" has been run by the gundog society, the lab club and the working gundog club. the ACTGS has also held multiple sweepstakes.
Currently some clubs allow non competing dogs to run a maximium of 4 trials per year in a stake for which they are not eligible.
The working gundog club will be writing to the other NSW and ACT clubs hopeing to be able to establish a consensious of opinion regarding eligibility and perhaps the unofficial formation of the point score "sweepstake' or 'super restricted". Bill Baileys idea is an excellent one and entails no more work or organization than we have at present.
"Sweepstakes" have been run by necessity in NSW in 2003 and have also been run by choice . They are here to stay at least in the short term. We even have a trophy donor and a point score keeper ready to roll!!!
In 2004 the working gundog club will be holding multible 'sweepstakes" and also a multiple marking test. the frequency of these unofficial stakes will obviously depend on how the numbers are panning out in novice and restricted.Lets hope the other clubs embrace these positive changes and the 2004 trial scene in NSW caters for everyone

[Kerry Webster]

Hi All,

I'm putting this back into the limelight again as a topic for discussion, seeing it is now almost time for the RAFT committee to get together for revision of rules.

A push by us triallers might get them incorporating a "Derby" type event in trials, and also, considering the AARD title for All Age stakes.

I will send through to Jason the paper on the AARD title for inclusion in the Articles section for members to read.

Kerry

[Jason Ferris]

Just bringing this thread back to the top as it is relevant to the rule review.

jf.