trialing in California some correspondance

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trialing in California some correspondance

Postby retriever staff » Sun 02 Feb 2003 2:39 pm

Being from California in the states, I was wondering what exactly your
Restricted stake is. I was wondering if it is like our Qualifying. The
Qualifying here, is a place for a dog fresh out of Derby to go, because in
most cases the animal is not ready for all age stakes such as the Amateur, or
the Open All Age. The Qualifying has all the tests the Open and Amateur has,
but not as complicated. i.e., blinds, honors, triples.
FYI, we have opens here that top 118 dogs. Do you use things like, dry pops?
(a gun goes off, but no bird is shot or thrown). This is used for a
diversion. How about poison birds? (A shot or thrown bird, but the dog must
be pulled off that bird to retrieve another.) A delayed double or triple,
This can also sometimes be called a bulldog. (A dog sees two or three birds
go down, retrieves one or two of them, then another bird is shot before he
gets all three. He must retrieve the bulldog before retrieving the final
bird of the double or triple.) Just curious as to how you run things down
under.
Thanks Dave
I'll be glad to answer as many questions as I can, and will be part of your e-mail directory. Currently I run a bitch (just turned two) and am starting the Qualifying next month. She's out of a Lean Mac son, FC-AFC Chena River Chavez. Her mother is a brood bitch, and litter mate to four Field Champions that I know of. One of her mothers litter mates is FC-AFC Dare to Dream (Cosmo). I am retired, and this is one of many interests that I have. I also run Hunt Tests. My female got her Junior, and Senior hunt titles in eight straight passes. I will start on her Master title this year. I must tell you that I'm not a die hard trialer. I'll probably run five or six trials, and four or five hunt tests this year. I bird hunt in western states, and Canada. I went to North Dakota this year pheasant hunting, and did quite good. I really bought "Caly" for hunting, but do the hunt test and trialing in the off season. Her registered name is "Chena River Calypso Callgirl" I've heard of the Eckherts, but do not know them. I've been trialing off and on since the early seventies. The difficulty has increased ten fold since then. Qualifying blinds of today are twice as difficult as Open All Age blinds of the seventies. The marks in the Open can be 400 yards, and that's part of a triple. If you have specific questions about what's going on in trialing or hunt tests, let me know. Do you have very many Goldens, Chesapeakes, or Flat Coats down under? How about Chocolates or Yellows in Labs? Thanks Dave Kirker
>A couple of other things for your information. We used to run what we called "Picnic Trials." back in the seventies. Those were like informal club get-togethers. In those "Trials" we would run Novice, Derby, Puppy, and some kind of advanced stake, either Qualifying or Open depending on the quality of the dogs attending. Last month was our one picnic trial of the year. Clubs just stopped doing them when Hunt Tests came to be. So one rarely sees Novice, or Puppy anymore. They even had Junior and Senior puppy. Up to 6 months was Junior, and 6 months to a year was Senior. In our AKC (American Kennel Club) trials and Hunt Tests, they are required to use either, Ducks, and or Pheasants. Hunt tests add an additional bird. It's called a Chukar, or it's official name of Red Legged Partridge. They are about one and a half times the size of a common pigeon. In California, one of our major problems is getting decent grounds to run trials and hunt tests on. Water training is especially difficult to find unless you travel a great distance. Back in the seventies we had many places, but with the huge population growth, many of those places are now covered with houses. We also had two or three military base, but even before 9/11, those were gone, mostly do to environmentalists worrying about some obscure frog that breeds every ten years losing his swamp. Sorry to ramble, but at my age I had better write this down or you'll never hear about these observations. By the way, what is a GSP? I'm assuming it's some kind of Spaniel (SP). Dave
retriever staff
 

contact Dave

Postby retriever staff » Sun 02 Feb 2003 5:23 pm

contact details for Dave Kirker Idahoduck@aol.com if anyone has any questions
retriever staff
 

Austarlian Retrieving Trials

Postby Noel Eltringham » Sat 08 Feb 2003 9:24 pm

Thanks for the enquiry about Australian Retrieving trials.

I don't know whether anyone has responded to you as yet.

In Australia we run trials of five different standards. These standardsare, beginners, novice, restricted all age and champiohsip.

The Beginners Test consists of two singles retrieves, one form land and one from in or through water.

A Novice stake consists of three single mark runs and must consist of runs from land and in or through water. The runs are all mark retrieves and are up to 100 metres in length.

The restricted stake consists of three runs and generally contains double or triple retrieves including blind retrieves. A Restricted Stake may contain a walk up retrieve (while walking along) or a two bird where another item of game is cast while the dog is returning with the first item of game.

The all age stake consists of three runs or more if specified in the schedule for the trial. The runs are either doubles or triples and can contain in addition to the runs in restricted double fall retrieves ( game cast when the dog is on the way out to the first item of game) and can also contain diversionary marks or blind game.

Championships are generally a harder or tighter version of all age.

We had a very interesting seminar two weeks ago, given by one of your professional triallers Mr Bill Eckett. It was obvious that our dogs do not have to run the same tight lines that your dogs have to perform.

We expect our dogs to mark in tight cover out of the sight of the handler a lot more than your trials.

A major difference to trials in the states is that the handler here is the gunner and fires at the game which is cast or placed in a blind.

The maximum length of retrieve in all age or championship is 150 metres.

I hope this information is of some assistance.


Noel Eltringham
Noel Eltringham
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed 05 Feb 2003 12:22 pm

Postby Julie C » Sun 09 Feb 2003 9:42 am

Noel, I am so glad someone answered this question.

Another point of interest to others including those in the US, is that the judges select order of bird pick up ie in restricted and all age, a blind is generally requested first, then mark/marks in the same run (series).

When I visited the US to observe prenational training and the Amateur Field trial national itself they were amazed with our trials and the cover they are run. Also that we run our competitions conceptally as the US not as the UK etc trials.

The Ecketts were also surprised that we ask such complex concepts from our dogs. They are thrilled at our dogs desire and marking ability.

Our marks are from hidden silent "wingers".

Julie Cramond
Julie C
 

hunt tests explained(junior and senior)

Postby retriever staff » Tue 11 Feb 2003 5:13 pm

Dave Kirker explains Anyway this more or less
explains Junior, and Senior Hunter. If anyone is interested, I'll send along
my observations of Master. By the way, the judges rarely (I've never seen it
in Field Trials or Hunt Tests), tell the handler an order in which he/she
must pick up the birds. Dave

, your Novice sounds a bit like our Junior Hunter, except the handler is
allowed to use a flat collar and a slip lead. Remembering that these dogs can
be as young as six months old. Marks should not exceed 100 yards. The Junior
must do four retrieves. Two on land, and two in the water. The dog must
complete this combination of retrieves on four different occasions to receive
it's Junior Hunter title from the American Kennel Club (here after I will
refer to as AKC). That of course is not a Field Trial, but a Hunt Test title.
The dog will then move to Senior Hunter, the middle title in the Hunt Test
game. Now the dog must be steady (no Leads). The dog must retrieve both a
double on land, and a double on water. The dog is required to do a land
blind, and a water blind. In Senior, all blinds must be outside of the marks,
and not between them. There also must be some sort of a diversion on one of
the marking tests. Most of the time this consists of a gun being fired while
the dogs is coming back with the first bird of the land double. Occasionally,
a bird will be thrown, but there is a little controversy over that, as
triples are not allowed in Senior. In that case the dog would pick up the
diversion (in most cases), and then pick up the second bird of the double.
The Senior dog must also be able to do an Honor. This can be mighty tough for
some of these young dogs. My female scares me every time she has to do this.
She hasn't broken yet, but I'm sure someday she'll ruin my day. Normally the
dog on honor must watch all the birds go down, and watch the dog on the line
be sent for the first bird, prior to being released by the judges. According
to the rules, all birds (Junior, Senior, and Master), should be in the
neighborhood of 100 yards. The neighborhood in the Master is beginning to see
urban sprawl. I've seen them over 150 yards. The Senior dog, like the Junior
dog must complete this set of marks and blinds on four occasions to receive a
Senior title. I won't go into the Master with this e-mail, but will tell you
that the dog must do it's scenario five times to get a Master title from AKC.
The exception to the rule is if the dog skips the Junior and Senior, and
goes directly for the Master, the dog must complete the scenario six times.
All the Hunt Tests are against a set of Standards. It's a pass/fail scenario.
There are no First, Second etc. You must average seven points on all tests,
with no zero's. i.e., Won't deliver to hand, whistle refusals, no-gos etc.
All handlers must where similitude of camo, or dark clothing. Most gunners
are hidden (same as yours), and wingers can be used. A winger is an
electronic bird thrower. We still use live shot birds in our AKC hunt tests,
and Field trials. Canada I know only uses frozen ducks donated by hunters.
I'm sure in my lifetime, there's a possibility of that happening in the
states. I'm sure I forgot something, but maybe next time. Our trials and hunt
tests are limited to "All Retriever breeds, Irish Water Spaniels, and most
recently Standard Poodles." (Yeah there's a few Master Hunter Poodles
around.) Thanks Dave
PS I would indeed like to hear the requirements for your restricted, and all
age stakes
retriever staff
 

master hunter

Postby retriever staff » Wed 12 Feb 2003 7:44 am

I am suprised that you don't have honors in Australia. We require that in
Field Trials, and Hunt Tests. I lost a dog on the honor after a two day
Master Hunt Test which was the last thing he had to do to complete. That was
heart breaking. We think it is realistic, because that's what a dog would
have to do if two dogs were hunting out of one duck blind, and only one bird
was shot. Standard Poodles were originally bred for hunting, so that's why
they have been recently allowed to run. We also have Chesapeake Bay
Retrievers, Flat Coated Retrievers (look like black Irish Setters), and Curly
Coated Retrievers (I've seen them, but I've never seen one run). Master Hunt
Tests usually last two days, and average about forty plus dogs in California.
Back East, and in the South, the entries can get so large that they split
them into A and B, and sometimes C groups, averaging 30 plus dogs. Of course
that means more judges, bird boys etc. Average price to run is $55 for Junior
and Senior, and $60 for Master. Master is a lot like Senior, but much
tougher. Master can be up to six different tests with, land, water, and
something with a land water combination. Again you must average seven out of
ten on all tests, with no complete failures. There will always be at least
one diversion bird, what we call a "Bulldog", e.g., A double or triple is
shot or thrown, and as the dog is bringing back the second bird, another bird
is launched from a hidden trap, and shot. If the dog drops the bird he is
carrying to retrieve the trap bird, he/she is finished. The dog must mark the
trapped bird, bring in the one he/she has, retrieve the trap bird, and then
retrieve any remaining birds. They do allow some handling on marks, but they
must be limited to one maybe two birds total in the six tests, and they must
be sharp, and precise. Whistle and cast refusals will hurt you big time. You
can get a quadruple in Master, I know because it happened to me. The blinds
will almost always be between the marks, and half the time right after you
retrieve the marks, with the gun stations still there. In Senior, many times
they will leave the area of the marks, and run the blinds in a new area. It
would be rare to see that in Master. I suppose it could be done using what we
call a "Poison Bird". That would be a bird shot that your dog could see fall,
and you would be required to pull your dog off of that mark to run the blind.
That's tough on a young dog, and takes a lot of discipline. We also have
Remote Launches". They might require you to leave your dog, walk away, and
send him/her from some distance away. You might be required to sit on a
stool, and send your dog from there. You might have to do a "Walk-Up", with
your dog quartering for birds. On the walk-up they could launch a bird from a
trap, shoot it, and your dog's butt better hit the ground. If it breaks to
retrieve, it's finished. I'm sure I forgot something, but that's somewhat of
an outline of Master. The marks are also usually tighter than the Senior,
which of course makes it a lot tougher. If you complete five of these in a
calendar year, you are invited to the Master National. Anyway, I'm getting
writers cramp, so I'll sign off for now. If I think of anything important
that I forgot, I'll send you a scenario. Regards Dave
retriever staff
 

Re: trialing in California some correspondance

Postby Guest » Wed 12 Feb 2003 4:09 pm

retriever staff wrote:By the way, what is a GSP? I'm assuming it's some kind of Spaniel (SP). Dave


A GSP is a German Shorthaired Pointer, it's a all-round dog that is used for Retrieving, Field Trials as well as hunting and various other disciplines like Agility, Obedience, etc.
Guest
 


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