Hip Scoring

[brettdavidson]

Hi All,

Bob Wyburn is not scoring hips at the moment. Apprently I've heard there is a vet in victoria that can score hip x-rays. I had two dogs x-rayed last week but dont have anyone to send them to. I would be very greatful for any information.

Cheers
Brett

[Gareth Tawton]

I have had hips scored by Bob in the last fortnight for my bitch and sent my dogs last Tuesday. I heard he is retiring but unless it is in the last few days and my vet has not been advised I think he is still working.

Gareth

[Wayne Poholke]

Hello Brett

The Radiologist we have always used here in Victoria is Dr.Roger B Lavelle at LAVELLE'S DIAGNOSTIC IMAGING, 80 Ashworths Road, Lancefield. Victoria. 3435. Ph: (03) 5429.1682BH

Regards
Wayne.

[brettdavidson]

The Day i had my two dogs in for x-raying last friday. my vet got an email saying that bob would not be scoring for an undisclosed period of time and that x-rays would be returned if not read. Did you get a result back on your dog Gareth? the email my vet got was that all x-rays sent to him in the week before would be returned unscored. Your dogs x-rays may have fallen into the twilight zone period.
cheers Brett

[Peter and Helen Eley]

Roger Lavelle is still reading them, he is at 80 Ashworths Road, Lancefield 3435. Trading as Lavelle's Diagnostic Imaging

[Joanne Hagan]

Gareth - Dr Wyburn is not scoring at the moment due to illness. The x-rays will probably be returned to you. There were emails sent out about it last week.
There is also a good scorer (from all accounts) in Sydney, will try and find his details for people. I've always used Wyburn too so I hope he is not retiring yet and gets well soon.

[Joanne Hagan]

Hi, the guy in Sydney is Graeme Allan (haven't found contact details as yet). Lots of people seem to be using Lavelle at the moment instead including GSD folk.

Cheers

[Jadine MacKenzie]

I have always used (since 1996) Graeme Allen in Sydney for all of my dogs and found them to be very professional. He is a tougher scorer than Wyburn though, but that has never worried me.

When you send x-rays to Graeme (Veterinary Imaging Associates - PO Box 300, St Leonards NSW 1590) they are examined by both him, and his associate, Robert Nicoll - it takes around 2 weeks to get the results back as I think they alternate their working weeks.

Their phone number is: 1300 300 892
Email: via@online-vets.com

Cheers

[Alison Hargreaves]

Hi Gareth,

We also use Roger Lavelle for hip scores. Our vet sends him all the x-rays for scoring. Has a great reputation and if my memory is not mistaken, he used to work at the Werribee Veterinary Hospital, before going out on his own.

Alison

[Peter and Helen Eley]

Love this , it always open a can of worms. Roger Lavelle used to be a lecturer at Victoria University at Werribee and also headed the AVA Hip Dysplasia panel for many years. I have had many a discussion with Roger about Hips and HD readers (the people doing it I mean) and he is a very hard marker with fixed ideas. He retired a few years ago but continued his participation with the hip readings at Werribee for a while before leaving and just doing them at home. A man with a lot of backgroung in hips and their problems.

[Wayne Poholke]

We could not agree more Peter & Helen. Roger Lavelle has scored 256 Kadnook Labradors over many years, and we believe the consistency of his hard scoring has been very beneficial to our breeding program. This has been a major reason for us achieving very low mean average hip scores, one of the aims of those passionate about the soundness of their breed.

Regards
Wayne.

[Gareth Tawton]

Hi Peter and Wayne,

Certainly this is an area I am no expert in but sure know that soundness is critical in any breed. I have been fortunate enough to have had several sound dogs that have had long careers so have benefited from prudent breeding. I do wonder how much difference there is between different people scoring dogs. Are we talking 1 or 2 points or a significant amount? What is a significant difference? Do you know of many dogs that have had the same xray scored by different vets? how different were the scores? I have recently purchased a dog from the US and note they use a different scoring system to us. Why? Are we out of wack with the international community or are they out of wack?

I must admit I just left it to my local vet to send the xrays away nad never gave it a second thought......

Gareth

[Wayne Poholke]

Hello Gareth

We understand that the Radiographers have been tested in the past and have all scored the same set of X-rays within one point of one another.

Gareth, one or two points are a significant amount when each component of the hip is measured at 0 to 5, and one component 0 to 6. So ONE POINT is a significant difference. Say your dog scores a total of 13 points and the breed average is 12.1, - one point is very significant.

Yes we do know of dogs that in the past have had the same x-ray scored by a second radiographer and they were scored a grade apart.

The different scoring system you refer to is PennHip. The system is being pushed extensively by the University of Pennsylvania particularly in the US and Canada. At this point only 20500 Labrador Retrievers have been scored in these countries, so very little statistical information is available. The world in general is still using the Willis System because it has proven statistically that selection of animals with low scores will result in improvement, generationaly in breeding programs.

PennHip has been available for more than a decade yet so few dogs have been scored under the scheme, in a breed that is one of the most popular in the US, 20500 is very few. That clearly explains that we are not out of whack with the international community. Breeders prefer to use the system they understand and not make a guess at which percentile is within breeding limits with PennHip.

Regards
Wayne

[Jadine MacKenzie]

Here is a chart showing the various ways hips are scored around the world (although it does not include PennHip as that is a completely different process). The columns may come out a little muddled, but you should be able to read across and match up the gradings with the countries. ie. Excellent = A-1 = 0-4(no>3/hip) = Normal.
OFA is the Orthopaedic Foundation of America, and the others are fairly self explanatory.

WORLDWIDE HIP DYSPLAYSIA COMPARISON SCORES


Other Hip Dysplasia Registries—An Approximation
OFA FCI (European) BVA (UK/Australia) SV (Germany)
Excellent A-1 0-4 (no > 3/hip) Normal
Good A-2 5-10 (no > 6/hip) Normal
Fair B-1 11-18 Normal
Borderline B-2 19-25 Fast Normal
Mild C 26-35 Noch Zugelassen
Moderate D 36-50 Mittlere
Severe E 51-106 Schwere

[Jeff Griffiths]

Hi all
I posted my dogs xrays to Dr Wyburn on 27/1/11, and had been in email contact with them before that.
I received them back on 11/2/11 unread with a sticker saying they were closed due to illness.
My vet and I have always used Dr Wyburn. My vet is now saying to send them to AVA.
Regards
Jeff