What do you think.

For discussion on anything retrieving related - trialing, training equipment, news, etc.

Moderator: Peter Butterfield

What do you think.

Postby Gareth Tawton » Sat 24 Dec 2011 9:02 pm

While training my youg dog recently I have started to tie a 30cm length of white surveyors tape to both birds and dummies on marks when the background is poor. I tend to do this more when i want to use a particular piece of terrain and there is poor marking conditions such as heavy gum trees. The dogs sure mark those birds much better than ones without a ribbon.

This got me thinking. Could you do this in a trial??? The rules don't cover it...I decided before doing this I would need to justify in my own mind if I as a competitor I would be happy. Without letting the cat out of the bag so to speak, as to where i would stand, I am interested to hear what others think. Below are some pros and cons.

Pros. This would increase the level of equity and remove the complaints on various bird colours. The old "his was a white bird mine was dark" syndrome. The flickering white in the air actually looks similar to the flashing white of teal. Would we infact be adding to the "natural conditions" part of our rules as the birds would have more of a "flutter". It would allow the use of even more varying terrain as it would open up the number of places we could put on marks. Dogs seem to "mark" the flutter much better than a plain old dummy or pidgeon.

Cons. Is this just too far from emulating shooting conditions? We are testing marking in trials. Part of that test should be a dogs ability to see the so called hard marks. Would we be removing that test and not let the great markers show what they are made of? Who would decide if the conditions were appropriate to allow a ribbon to be attached. What happens if one comes off mid flight in a trial.

Let me know what you think.'

Gareth
Last edited by Gareth Tawton on Mon 26 Dec 2011 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gareth Tawton
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 06 Mar 2003 8:24 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: What do you think.

Postby Diane McCann » Sun 25 Dec 2011 5:17 pm

I would think that it would make some trial sites more flexible and allow for better marking runs on those sites, so seems like a positive move to me
Diane
Diane McCann
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon 01 Mar 2004 1:55 pm
Location: Pearcecdale Vic

Re: What do you think.

Postby Raymond Johnson » Thu 29 Dec 2011 5:54 pm

Gareth,
Maybe a beeper on the bird for bad scenting days. This is as bad as using rubber ducks.
A judge should set marks that can be seen. Some handlers always complain that their dogs didn't see it.
It wouldn't take long before all marks would have streamers. Smaller dogs may step on the streamers, when
returning back to handler.

Rule Book says:- emulate as closely as possible those which would be found whilst hunting.

I've never shot any game wearing ribbons.
My thoughts Ray Johnson
Raymond Johnson
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2003 8:45 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: What do you think.

Postby Gareth Tawton » Thu 29 Dec 2011 9:38 pm

Hey Ray,

Thanks for your input.
The "bad scenting days"are consistent for all dogs on any given day. Birds can be different colour from dog to dog. Our rules also call for an ambit of equality. Would ribbons help keep the equality???
I agree the same handlers often complain about the quality of marks or the position of the sun. I dont think we will ever fix that!!!
Dogs stepping on streamers made from surveyors tape is not an issue.
I agree I haven't shot any birds with streamers. I also dont hunt with blanks, shoot pigeons as game or shoot rabbits on a string??? Where do we stop?
I have shot heaps of teal with flashing white on top and bottom of wings. They look similar top a dark pidgeon with a white streamer....

In seems we are 50:50 from our HUGE response of two people. I am still sitting on the fence but will keep training with them.

Gareth
Gareth Tawton
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 06 Mar 2003 8:24 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: What do you think.

Postby Garrick Bridges » Fri 30 Dec 2011 10:13 am

Hi Gareth,
Just my 2 cents worth - I wouldn't like to see streamers tied to the birds. Whilst I agree that doing so may enable heavily treed sites to be more usable for marking tests, I think that the inherantly good marking dogs should have an opportunity to shine.

Regards,

Garrick
Garrick Bridges
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2003 10:06 am
Location: Albury, New South Wales

Re: What do you think.

Postby Prue Winkfield » Fri 30 Dec 2011 10:48 am

Hi Gareth - first congrats on your litter. As you could imagine coming from me - think the marks should be such that the dogs can see them without ribbons.

If trial sites are too treed put on shorter marks. If the judges then want to make it easier to differentiate between dogs why don't they call in a dog that requires more than one or two handles on a mark. We might then get back to birds the dogs can see properly. Handlers will go up to the pegs expecting the dog to be able to clearly see the mark and provided they have been adequately trained should not require handling . Surely we want to see good marking dogs with good memory without making everything so tight or hard to see handling is required. Speaking personally - when I first seriously started in modern day AA I never handled on a mark in training as thought that was not on. Ended up with a dog that refused to handle on marks(always knew best!) but did on blinds. Now I approach trials assuming that it will not be IF I have to handle but WHEN . If I don't that is real cause for celebration! Prue
Prue Winkfield
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri 14 Feb 2003 9:17 am
Location: victoria

Re: What do you think.

Postby Philip Stevens » Fri 30 Dec 2011 11:03 pm

Raymond Johnson wrote:Gareth,
Maybe a beeper on the bird for bad scenting days. This is as bad as using rubber ducks.
A judge should set marks that can be seen. Some handlers always complain that their dogs didn't see it.
It wouldn't take long before all marks would have streamers. Smaller dogs may step on the streamers, when
returning back to handler.

Rule Book says:- emulate as closely as possible those which would be found whilst hunting.

I've never shot any game wearing ribbons.
My thoughts Ray Johnson


+1

..............Philip
Philip Stevens
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 07 Jul 2009 11:07 am


Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests

cron