USE OF NEOPRENE VEST WHILE COMPETING

[Kerry Webster]

I have taken a great deal of interest in reading the comments on this subject. I must admit I am contemplating getting a vest for my old dog, but, I was thinking for training situations and possibly after the completion of a water run to keep her warm. She already gets rugged but it becomes saturated.

Personally, I wouldn't put a vest on a dog in competition. I am paranoid about my dogs getting hung up as it is, and wouldn't want the added worry of snagging the vest on a retrieve. Whilst I admit our water temperatures do not get to the "ice on top" stage, it is still cold, but as there is a maximum of three retrieves through water that is possible, a chamois, good rub down after the run, then rugging, and, for my oldie, a quick massage to stimulate blood circulation before facing the run, seems to do the trick.

But, for training where the dog may have to enter water several times over, or even sit it out waiting their turn, and have a good chance of getting chilled, I would willingly have a vest on my dog for protection.

Just wonder about the cirrent ruling of not administering anything to a dog, whether a vest, boots or even bandage could be classed as administering. As the word "administer" is originally derived from the Latin "administrare", (to be an aid to), I suppose this could be argued so.

Kerry

[Howard]

I could see the day if dogs were to wear vests in trials the dog being hooked up on something. The next thing someone would be in the water and a possibility of dog or handler drowning

I am paranoid about my dogs getting hung up as it is, and wouldn't want the added worry of snagging the vest on a retrieve.

I've been using vests in hunting and training for better than 10 years. I've had dogs snagged on sticks and brush. I've never had a dog stay hung up for more than a few seconds. They've come in without their vests and they've come in with their vest ripped to ribbons, but the dogs have always come in with their bird. I think the chances of snagging and drowning are very remote; but it could happen.

[Jack Lynch]

Here is my final comment on this subject.I have just returned from the Eckett seminar which I found to be extremely interesting and an enormous learning curve for me.Bill was asked his opinion on the wearing of dog vests whilst they wear working He replied that he was in favour of using them during training in very cold water but instantly denounced the use of them in trials. He also stated that on numerous occasions , whilst hunting,he had experienced dogs getting hung up when wearing vests and having to be rescued by boat.Our contributions to listen to this gentlemans expert opinions, I believe amounted to around 9000 dollars, therefore should we ignore him ? I think not.On a lighter note, perhaps we could have an assortment of colours so that we could interchange them,.according to the terrain and make our dogs easier to see.How about a fluorescent one for when its getting dark?Lets get real folks. I rest my case.Regards, Jack.

[Gareth Tawton]

Like Jack I'll offer a final comment.

Jack forgot to mention that Bill had never seen a dog injured or killed thru the use of a vest. With a bit of common sense it would be easy to choose the appropriate conditions/ terrain to use a vest. Also this very subject had quite heated debate in the US, obviously it was not that clean cut there either. Bill also agreed unlike the US we allow breeds other than the pure retrievers to compete such as the GSP Viszla etc etc. and that this would need to be taken into considereation when making a final decision for our trials.

As for our ladder and milk crate carrying competitors, especially those that are judges. Don't forget rule 1. Would you shoot on a milk crate

Hopefully this debate will have made all of us think a little about this subject and our various RAFT committees will make representations for the majority not their own personal choice. Whether you agree or disagree with vests in trial make sure you make your thoughts known to your RAFT representatives

Till I think of someother contentious and troublemaking subject. Good trialling and think outside the square.

Gareth

[Bo Curtis]

I'd give it a no vote while competing.
Similar to playing water polo wearing water wings.
The dogs should work in their natural state, lordy, perhaps a global positioning beacon for those far rangeing dogs?!?
Vests give an unnatural flotation.
Why should we have to purchase special effects to achieve some unreachable degree of "equality"?
Each breed has its own benefits, or should I say, advantages. Long coat, short coat, tall, stocky, etc. Olfactory senses? Perhaps a bit of cotton wool up the noses of GSPs? that might even it out for some.
I go along with the chamois towel down after a swim and put on a coat if needed.
Sure, wear them for training and hunting. More time spent in the swamp water then than in a normal trial runs.
Com'on, get tough, join us for a winter swim down at the beach.
I know what I'LL be wearing.....

Bo

[Julie Cramond]

Hi everyone,

I was at an internet cafe (I know insane but I had some spare time) in Queensland (and noticed this growing thread)while Bill was still in Australia, I asked him to clarify his comments on the use of a vest while training and in competitions.

He is of the firm belief that vests in COLD conditions are vital when training/hunting a dog for long periods of time in water.
Remember too that many pros and amateurs travel down south in the US during their winter due to cold water.

Other pro friends of Bill's have used vests during competitons in very cold conditions. It is up to the each judges discretion in the US.

Bill continued by saying that wearing a vest on a cheaty dog will not help when competing in water.

I had never personally used a vest on any of my dogs, before Peppa during the seminar. At the field and game training seminar a couple of weeks ago I noticed quite a few short hairs with the double sided coloured vests. I smiled to myself when I thought about using a vest in the future in competition, by having the orange side out. Would this is considered cheating, as we could possibly see our dogs more clearly?

Before the seminar began my dog Stamp was used by Bill for the five legged water pattern, so he spent about an hour in what Bill considered cold water. Bill was concerned during this set up but I ignorantly thought Stamp would be able to cope, as he does in normal water training at home. He suffered cold water tail for 2 days. Would a vest prevented this? I am purchasing a vest shortly as it certainly would not have hurt during water training. Until the vest is bought I will certainly continue with Bill's idea, of using a pile of dummies intermittently on land during water work to aid in the dogs cold water recovery.

[Prue Winkfield]

I bought a vest at Benalla and have tried it twice on my GSP Inca. My experience so far is that it certainly kept her main body warm and you could feel the heat when taking off the vest. However, her rear end and ears were absolutely frozen and she was shivering all over but did the drills no problem. That was today when the outside temp was 10. A couple of days ago I tried it when the temp was only 6 and the water deeper so probably colder and she balked a bit at the third entry. So don't know whether it is enough to give equality with labs when doing water work - what is the experience with labs - do they still shiver uncontrolably when doing the drills? I still did the happy dummies after three swims to get her circulation going as Bill suggested. Julie - think the orange is for safety in a duck swamp when you can get gungho people who shoot at anything that moves

[Bo Curtis]

Prue,
The only time I've been shot at is standing with the gallery at a spaniel & retriever field trial

Bo

[Kirsty Blair]

I know what I'LL be wearing.....

Sorry all, I've forgotten what I was going to say.....still wondering what Bo's wearing

Kirsty