USE OF NEOPRENE VEST WHILE COMPETING

[Gareth Tawton]

The NSW Gundog Society held trials in the Blue mountains on the weekend. Morning temperatures were below freezing and as you can imagine in the middle of winter the water is like ice.

Having read the rules and not being able to find anywhere that prohibts me I ran my dog in a neoprene vest in the second run on sunday. The run was a double blind (including a long channel swim and potentially a short channel unless you let the dog run the bank) and a short diversionary mark. Two competitors after I had completed the run had some objections to me running the dog in a vest.

The objections were that I had recieved an unfair advantage and that if the dog got hooked up on the vest it was potentially dangerous.

My response was that everyone has an equal opportunity to run their dog in a vest I happened to choose to take up that option. Therefore I recieved no unfair advantage. Secondly the vests are designed for dogs to hunt in. I know a number of people who have used vests extensivley while shooting and never has a dog hooked up in one, less get in a dangerous situation. The vest are designed to rip before getting a dog hooked up on anything.

I also argued that under ANKC regulations we have a responsiblity for the health and well being of our dogs. Given the technology exist to allow our dogs to stay warm in such adverse conditions it seems prudent to take advantage of them.

Personally I am not particularly fussed if we do decide to prevent this practice. However it would make no sense to me given it does not make a dog swim straighter or handle better it just lets him enjoy his work a little more. Certainly it will make the water in the middle of winter a much more pleasant environment for those dogs with a thin or short coat.

I would be interested to know what people think. Should we allow dogs to run in vests (or boots for that matter) or ban them from trials?

Gareth

[Prue Winkfield]

Gareth - can't see a problem with it - in fact if Iknew where to get one for GSPs I would use it. As is, at the moment am limiting water work as it is so cold. Is there something in the rules though about having anything in or on the competing dog - seem to remember some fuss about putting cotton wool inside ears for a dog that had problems with water in the ears?
Prue

[Julie Cramond]

Somewhere !!!! deep in my memory bank I remember seeing a rule that even prohibits bandages being used on dogs when competiting. I may be wrong but Gareth, we all certainly need to be aware of the ruling.

Prue, John Lawton has imported vests from the US. A few GSP owners purchased them at the recent Field and Game, Central Highlands training weekend. Maybe you could give him a ring and ask him to bring some up this weekend. BTW, could you also ask him to bring up orange bumpers for me. Thanks.

[Alan Donovan]

Hi Prue

Is there something in the rules though about having anything in or on the competing dog .......

In Queensland there is a local rule which applies to all "exhibitions" under CCC (Qld) rules, under which it is an offence to enter a dog 'if any act ........is performed upon or in relation to a dog which alters or which could result in altering the natural appearance, characteristics or behaviour of the dog'

This could include putting a vest on a dog. Or wool in its ears (mine have it between the ears). It could also preclude any sort of 'training'!

Always a stickler for the rules. Do you have any good local ones?

Cheers - Alan

[Gareth Tawton]

Hi all,

I have only read the ANKCwebsite and Retrieving rules and I can't find anything in relation to vests, boots bandages or the like. However your dog must pass vetting and one could argue that the need for a bandage suggest the dogs is not fit to run. Cotton wool in the ears That has to make hearing commands difficult.

Alan I always thought that the various rules direct the word exhibition towards the show ring not trialing. I know normally our rules are written clearly and concisley but maybe this is the one time that there is some discretion for common sense. At the end of the day we are meant to be part of a democracy where the majority rules. I am interested to know what does the majority think, despite various airy fairy rule interpretations. Let dogs run in vest or not?

Regards,

Gareth

[Leanne O'Sullivan]

Hi Gareth & Alan

In Victoria (don't know about other states) there is a rule in obedience trials that allows for a dog to wear a coat but if it starts the competition in a coat, it must finish the competition in a coat, ie. if it's raining when you start your heel work and you decide to put a coat on the dog but the sun comes out when you have to go back for your stays, that's your bad luck - the coat stays on.

In the same vein, you can't put a coat on the dog if it starts to rain before the stays if the dog didn't compete in a coat for the earlier exercises.

Leanne

[Laraine Frawley]

Leanne

I think you wiil find in the last change of obedience rules that dogs do not have to have protective coats on or off for both times they are in the ring. If for example they do their individual exercises in the warmth of the day but the stays are later when it gets cold, handlers may put protective coats on their dogs and the same if competing in the early morning chill for the individual exercises they can have their coats on and then take them off for stays in the middle of the day.


Laraine

[Leanne O'Sullivan]

Hi Larraine

Thanks for that - I have been out of obedience trials for a few years now.

Leanne

[Garrick Bridges]

Gareth,
I personally don't see a problem with the vests. In fact, I think they are probably a good idea if they keep the dog more comfortable. The vests are readily available via the internet so I would be inclined to leave the decision about whether or not to use them up to the individual handlers.
Garrick

[Joanne Hagan]

Laraine is correct re: obedience, as I do this with my shorthairs regularly in obedience, coats off for heelwork, on for stays when it's cooler weather. Only have had one judge tell me off for it and he promptly got told by the steward that HE was wrong

Gareth, being a shorthair person I say yes to them running with vests - you guys with coated breeds have an advantage over my guys to start off with anyway!! LOL. Seriously, it might make the dogs more comfortable, but in reality, at the higher levels in particular, how much advantage do people really think wearing a vest would give? I personally doubt very little. JMO.

Joanne

[Prue Winkfield]

Joanne - am thinking of getting one for my GSP mainly for training. I was out in the sleet yesterday and no way was I going to give my girl heavy water work(in fact any water work) in those conditions. The problem is that to be competitive at the higher levels one needs to do a lot of water drills all the year around. One explanation for the strength of GSPs in Qld is the warm water there all the time. As we have no alternative but to compete with labs and goldens in Australia - lets get the vests and use them if they work - then watch out lab owners Prue

[Prue Winkfield]

Thanks Julie - John is brining some up to Benella - and your orange dummies. Prue

[Gail Phoenix]

Hi all,
If you want to use vests on your dogs, I say go for it. Long strenuous training sessions in water must be better for your dogs if their core body temperature is kept up. I don't believe in making things tougher for our dogs than we need too.
Why is any water, in a river or in the surf at the beach, a puddle or freezing cold rockpool irresistible to my GSP's. Just can't keep them out, but a bath or squirt off with the hose the worst thing in the world?
A few of us in SA had been discussing making some vests & some discussion has taken place with a wetsuit manufacturer. They seem to think they can make them for less than O/S imports. Early days yet.
I think Lottie would look good in a bright colour with some nice decoration such as ducks or rabbits embroidered on it!!
Just kidding guys!!
Gail

[Jack Lynch]

This issue has caused me to have a bout of insomnia, here are my conclusions.A collar is a close fitting object or garment, worn around a dogs neck in order to confine or restrain, in other words control.I observed Gareths dog wearing the vest and I am in no doubt that it may be referred to as a close fitting object or garment which is close fitting around the neck and extends to the overall body.Therefore a dog competing in a vest could feel more under control, especially one that is used to being trained whilst wearing one, thus receiving an unfair advantage.Let us keep it non-slip.
Regards, Jack.

[Prue Winkfield]

Perhaps judges should have enough sense not to put on very long water swims in the middle of winter