RETRIEVING AUSTRALIA FORUM

currently different states seem to have different protocols regarding running orders in trials
Victorian and the ACT run in catalogue order all day whist NSW reverses the running order and starts from the middle in the second run
I am not sure what the rest of the country does
wouldn't it be sensible to have a national directive as to how the running order should be????
personally i think running in catalogue order all day is blatantly unfair to the first dog up in 99% of cases
many times the other competitors gain vital information from watching the first dog run
where does the dog go out of sight??
where does the dog wind the birds from??
what direction is the wind blowing 150 meters away??
very rarely do our judges run a test dog on the run in view of the competitors in fact in my 23 years in the sport i can think of only one judge who has done it
drag back sent is a big factor in locating birds and good judges should be doing everything in there power to minimize luck and provide an ambit of equality
I believe that revolving the running order is a fairer and better system and yet i hear from some that"at the end of the day it all works out evenly""
ARE U KIDDING????????????????
what does everyone else think

Personally would like to see the introduction of a 'test dog' on each run.

I'm only a novice at trialling and perhaps don't understand all the "ins & outs" but it would seem to me that the dog running first does not have the advantage of a well scented fall area and the handlers the advantage of seeing and adjusting for the variations in fall of the bird. I have in one trial been first up on all four runs and found it a little more difficult than when not running first. I must also say that in trials in which I have competed we have been shown a test bird and this is very valuable. Of course there will always be times when birds do not land where you think (wind gusts, size of bird etc) but a test bird is a great help.

I'm all for a rotating running order. It seems a fairer system to me. First run starts with No 1, second run with No 5 and thid run with No 9. ( Assuming 12 runners in a stake) or any other system that rotates the starting order.

Just a few thoughts from a newby. Lynne

I think that there is merit and fairness in first run dog 1, second run 1/3rd of the way through the field and last run 2/3rd through the field

Di we in NSW run first in the middle and last i think that is fairer under your proposal the last dog would run last all day and that is not fair

No Peter, the last dog only runs last once under my proposal, on run one

sorry Di u are correct
but under your proposal in a field of 15 the last dog runs 15th 10th and 5th
under current NSW rules he runs 15th 8th and 1st i still think that is fairer

I certainly see merit in altering the start dog after each run but lets not get too carried away. It will either be up to the Trial manager or the individual judge to implement this. There are no NSW rules, just ANKC rules. Some States have their own practices but to my knowledge, not rules.

I have competed in trials using both methods, and changing the order of dogs each run is by far, fairer!!! Especially for a newcomer into novice, just imagine how they feel, not just 1st in run 1, but 1st in all three!!! come on clubs lets make it fairer for all, there is no extra work!!!

I have run in Victoria, NSW and QLD trials and have no objection to being in the same order for the day as long as the judge has ensured the fall area has been sufficiently scented i.e. more than one bird has fallen there. There are certainly advantages to being dog number one if you have a young male who is very very interested in the opposite sex! Nothing worse than being say the 6th dog up in Novice and the previous 3 dogs have been bitches!!! I know it all comes back to training but unless you train with bitches the trial is the only way you can train the young male to ignore the scent....having said that the current NSW way of moving the dogs around does seem very fair, my only observation is that there always seem to be people who do not know when they are up and are not ready - which means you need a marshalling steward to remind everyone of the running order. It gets even more confusing when dogs are out and running non-competitive at the 'end' of each run.

peter

It makes it fair if people play to the rules, wouldn't be the first time that 1 goes to the other stake to avoid running first.
I don't mind what happens in local competitions but state and national championship should be standardised.
A draw on each run to share running order around( if done at draw or on the day.)

tony

a draw on each run Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
r u kidding ????not only is that impractical but in theory the same dog could still end up running first on every run which is still unfair

Peter

This has been used in championship before (I believe nsw and act ) and works fine. If you get draw twice it bad luck ,odds are very much against this .
1 starts the first run and if 5 is draw it becomes the starting dog and so on.
A big benefit is you know who is starting and what dogs are in front of you (less confusing, easier for people running multiples and stewards).

tony

Tony under your system u can still run first on every run
Why not take the luck out of it
Publish the running order in the draw like we generally do in nsw
How confusing can that be????

peter

This may work for three runs, what about six or eight (championship / national fields ) would you have a standardise running order?
How would a standardised order to work with 54 dog field to 15 dog field???????????

tony