cocker spaniels

[crackerd]

Maureen, you can "unofficially" enter AKC events with an unrecognized breed, as what the kennel club calls "demonstration dog." Been there, done that. But alternatives are numerous for gundogs here, with orgs. that include NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Assn.), NAHRA (North American Hunting Retriever Assn.) and HRC (Hunting Retriever Club) of the United Kennel Club. The latter two allow all gundog breeds in their tests, while NAVHDA is for HPRs.

I've run retriever tests with all three of these

and in NAHRA even have seen border collies and St. Bernards worked.

But never an American cocker , though there are a couple of working lines left, and I occasionally come across them at AKC spaniel tests. Spanieling in the the US has almost divided into subsets, with field-bred ESS and cockers running trials and tests to themselves, and the minor spaniels off on their own for hunt tests. (Sussex, Clumbers, Field and AWS cannot [yet] compete in field trials, nor do they have one of their own [yet] that would lump the minor breeds together.)

IWS are considered a retriever in the States and again limited to AKC retrieving events.

MG

[Howard]

I've run retriever tests with all three of these


MG

Hey Crackerd, could you tell me what breeds the three dogs in the picture are. I'm sure the one on our right is a boykin, the middle looks kinda like a German Wirehair but I've never seen one that color, and the left one is a spaniel but what kind I don't know.

Thanks

[Maureen Cooper]

You have a wide choice of events, crackerd. Here we can run ESS, cockers,clumbers, sussex etc in our retrieving trials as all are recognised by our ANKC. Looking at the photo... a guess from Oz, a Field Spaniel on the left, an Italian Spinone in the middle and a Boykin on the right.

We also have Welsh Springer spaniels ( I like them) and Brittanys. Our ESS work well with some lines as do some Brittanys, but never seen a Clumber, Sussex, Welshie or Field in any of our trials. Interesting to read about your eligibility to run in all those other tests even what is technically a cross bred. Border Collies!! St Bernards!!!! I'd like to see THAT!

Maureen

[Jim Duncan]

There has recently been two cocker spaniels from working lines imported into South Australia from NZ . One pure black and the other predominantly black. Eight months & five months of age at the moment.
They will be trained for field work, probably not NSRT. I am told there is another litter on the ground in NZ. Can pass on details if interested.

cheers Jim

[crackerd]

Hey, Howard, did you make a wrong turn from the Alaskan WRC bulletin board?

Sussex, spinone and Boykin.

Funny thing about the border collies. Dave Mosher (one of Eckett's contemporaries) trains with a friend who's also got a nice young Chessie. But after watching the BC work on long marks, Mosher told him he was training the wrong dog. They can put 400 yards behind them in a heartbeat. The whistle for handling them is a bit odd, though...

A spinone--Italian wirehair--can't get there that fast but once they're in the water, it's the Staten Island Ferry, just plowing through. Got paws the size of a catcher's mitt...er make that two wicket keeper's mitts.

Maureen, so spaniels never show up at ANKC retriever trials? Except for Boykins, and occasional AWS, seldom seen at the tests staged by orgs. above, either.

What of your working spaniel tests and trials, are similar to the UK, and dominated by field-bred ESS? Here the water work for spaniels in trials and tests is picayune, embarrassing requirements really. For a FtCh., a dog may have to pass only a separate (from the field trial itself) water test that may be a single mark of 15-20 yards.

Irony is that many spaniels, especially ESS, will cannonade into the water, just not really trained to do much once they get there.


MG

[Maureen Cooper]

Thought after I had logged out it could have been a Sussex, just going on the liver colour.

ESS are seen in Queensland, Tasmania and Victoria in Retrieving trials. We had some in NSW but no longer. No Cockers since Ken's but I recently judged a pretty enthusiastic blue roan Cocker in a Gundog Working test. Hope I see more of it.

Maybe we should clarify our trialling scene for o/s visitors. We have Retrieving Trials , open to ANY ANKC registered breed of gundog. Three levels, Novice ,Restricted and All Age. These are run on dead game with contrived runs the same for every dog at that level. A shotgun is used but fires cartridges loaded with a primer or, rarely, blanks. It has to be handled as though it was a 'live' gun.

Spaniel & Retriever Trials are on live game and confined to those dogs only, they have Novice and Open Stakes. Pointer & Setter are also on live game and on those breeds only, not sure about Novice and Open stakes. 'Live' guns are used of course. Points awarded for finding, backing, flushing and retrieving.

A Field Trial is again on live game but open to any breed of gundog, from my recollection of seeing one many years ago. I am not sure if any titles are available in the first two but 2 wins in Open in Field Trials have a FT Ch title and Novice Field Dog title is also available but not sure what is required. Maybe someone can fill in this area as it is not my domain. Prue?? Like the US, a water test is required for passes in the Field Trials but often quite a simple retrieve of dead game tossed into water.

I have not been to a S & R trial or a P & S trial so hopefully, we might get someone to fill in for you.

Gundog Working tests are usually held by individual breed clubs at dog shows and rules vary from State to State, hence no title is awarded. Terrain varies from mown grass(!) to a proper paddock, no gun is used and dummies are used at some and not dead game so there is no test for hardmouth or steadiness to shot in this case. Again open to any registered gundog breed except some breed clubs may restrict theirs to that breed only. GWT's are pretty informal with simple obedience and basic retrieving involved. Very few triallers compete in GWT's, most competitors are usually at the venue to either show their dog or compete in the obedience ring.

Hope you now have a better picture. Prue, perhaps you can fill in!

Maureen

[Ted McEniery]

Val,
I have just spoken with the President of the Cocker Spaniel Society of NSW. The society is having a meeting this coming Tuesday so he said he would enquire about working lines. Apparently there are some about but he could not recall them off the top of his head.

There is a kennel in Scotland that specializes in working cockers.

Really the instincts should still be there in most pups. It's just up to the trainer to bring the to the surface.

Best of luck. I'll post more when he gets back to me. I think the society would be thrilled to have someone using the breed for it's originally intended purpose.

[Ted McEniery]

Val, Greg has got back to me already.A Sydney kennel that has just moved to Tasmania has the working bent. http://www.dogs.net.au/croziercockerspaniels[url]

If that doesn't work just search for crozier cocker spaniels and you should find them.

[Wayne Parkinson]

I seem to remember a Kiwi ran in Victoria some years ago with a couple of nice little Cockers. I think they were black and white. They came over with him.
I don't know what happened to him. he was a nice young bloke that smoked a pipe.
Does anyone remember his name?
I sure Jack would have the information.

Wayne P.

[Prue Winkfield]

A bit more on field trials: Pointer & Setter trials are open to those breeds only - not what the US call Versatiles and we call Unility Gundogs.
P&S Trials are run on quail with no water work. The dogs either 'seek dead' or retrieve to hand. In the Utility Gundog trials the dogs have to retrieve to hand. Dogs hunt fur & feather. There is also a water test which ranges from a Beginners type run in Novice to a restricted one at Championship level with a mark & blind. In both disciplines backing is essential and carries a lot of points. There are no horsebac trials in Australia. Spaniel & retriever trials can be run on fur or feather and no longer have a water test. Hope this helps.