cocker spaniels

[val mclennan]

Hi,
Could someone give me some information on cocker spaniels.Are they any good in retreiver trials. I'm researching the breed although I've never been to a trial it all sounds very interesting I'v previoulsy had Airedales one who got to cd standard. We enjoyed obedience and started training for endurance but she was'nt really interested. I started reading about retrieving and field rials although I'm not really interested in shooting myself.
thanks

[Prue Winkfield]

Years ago there was someone trialling cocker spaniels at the top level and got his RtCh title who lived in Sydney I saw him work and he (or she) was fantastic. Generally the cockers found in Australia seem to be show stuff and in the main not good rerievers. Having said that, I looked after one for a while for someone that was a show dog but with very strong retrieving drive. There should be someone from Sydney who reads this forum who could remember the person who ran the dogs and might head you in the right direction to find a working cocker if they still exist here. One of the disadvantages they have is their size - difficult to see over long grass at a bird thrown 100 yards away!

[Peter Betteridge]

'Moet"
could you please identify yourself.it would be nice to have a name to respond to.Our moderator jason Ferris will help you change your profile if you like.You would also be welcome to attend one of the working gundog training days and find out all about the sport.
prue
the person you refer to is ken Howlin who owned a RTCh Cocker about 25 years ago.Ken passed away about 5 years ago but I had the Privilege of meeting him and watching him train (a lab) He was a good friend of Bob Adams .Bob was a protege of Bill Baileys and infact purchased 'Ricky", Bills dog after "Cass" when Bills wife was very sick and Bill had to stop trialing.
there is an interesting article in "australasian gundog" about 1991 I believe, featuring Ken and how he trained his cocker.I recollect that Ken had a lab which died of old age and his wife went out on impulse and purchased a cocker from show lines and the rest is history

[val mclennan]

Hi, Peter & Prue
Tks for the reply, so I gather cockers are rarely seen in trials what about Springers, I do not have a pup yet still just researching breeds. Is this trialing as exciting as it sounds, when is the season, and is there formal training somewhere and at what age do the pups start.

thanks
val

[Gareth Tawton]

Peter,

I think you will find it was Ken Howarth not Howlin. Ken ran a cocker in the mid to late 80's. My memory is that he only ever won 2 All Agea for his title Ken was over the moon as he had been trying foeryears to get his title with the dog.

Val,

Like most sports it is hard to beat the specialist at his own game. Hence the Labrador is by far the most dominant breed in our game. Having said that any of the gundogs can be ran . Over the years there hace been a couple of very handy GSP's and Golden Retrievers. It is probabl;y fair to say you can be successful with any breed but it is likely to be much easier with a Lab. I think most people with an Obediance background don't realise how much harder retrieving is than obediance. So for a first dog I would take the "easy" option of a labrador.

The trial season In NSW has finished for the year and will start again next March. Contact The Lab Club of NSW , the gubndog Society of NSW or the working Retriever club of NSW for some help.

Good Luck,

Gareth

[Peter Betteridge]

gareth
you are absolutely right it is Howarth not Howlin,just a typo on my part.I also heard that he only won 2 all age stakes nethertheless is is still a remarkable acheivement to title a cocker.I meet Ken at Bella Vista near castle hill, he had a lab at the time and he and Bob Adams would often train at the same place as Bill bailey and I.his lab never trialed but ken would inveritably turn up with a bag of pigeons and spend about 30 minutes throwing for his dog
Val
the working gundog club of nsw has an ongoing training school run by myself,geoff cole and joe vella.We meet at RNSWCC about bi monthly.if you join the club you would be made very welcome.gareth's advice re the breeds is spot on. the time to start formal training is around 6 months or when the pups cut their 2nd teeth
but be warned this sport is very addictive.looking forward to meeting you in the near future
peter betteridge0408446390

[Prue Winkfield]

Well Gareth, obvoiously I have to comment here If one wants to get to the top by the easiest route, certainly get a Lab. However, if one wants a pet first and to have 'fun' it is not so important and some people don't particularly like Labs Val - as far as springers go - there have been springers that have done well - in Qld in particular - they have their titles and one came down to our Easter trial and completed all three All Ages (the top level). If you are interested in springers, make sure you get one from working lines - if interested. private email me and I can head you in the right direction. In my opionion, you can have a lot of fun with a working springer and probably do quite well in Novice and Restricted but would find it very difficult to get the top. It all depends what your motivation is for getting a pup - I love my GSPs and would never change but don't pretend they are as easy to train as a Lab or Golden for that matter. Prue

[Howard]

some people don't particularly like Labs

Huh???? Honest????? How could someone not like a big wet lab crawling onto your lap and giving you a big wet lab kiss right on your face?

[val mclennan]

peter,garath,prue

tks for the help and advice, I will hopefully get my puppy asap after xmas
then attend a trial to see one in action, worry about obedience first then.
Attend a few trials as spectator only.

val

[Peter Betteridge]

Val
good luck finding a pup.if you do decide to trial or do obedience you will need to sift thru the pedigree's of your chosen breed and look for lots of RTCH;s RRD's or UD's CDX 's The majority of pups are from show lines and are in the most not so suited to the rigors of our sport

[crackerd]

The majority of pups are from show lines and are in the most not so suited to the rigors of our sport.

Are there any Boykin spaniels in Oz, and if so are they a recognized breed for your retriever trials?



MG

[Pat Thorn]

Hence the Labrador is by far the most dominant breed in our game. Having said that any of the gundogs can be ran . Over the years there hace been a couple of very handy GSP's and Golden Retrievers.

Homer, from what I have heard was a wee bit more than just "very handy", after all, how many Labs have won 2 or more Nationals.

[Maureen Cooper]

To crackerd... Boykin spaniels are not a recognised gundog breed here. I have heard of them but only via US magazines. None even here to my knowledge.

Maureen ( shows and trials)

[crackerd]

Thanks, Maureen. Wondered if quarantine would be a big hitch or just that the dog was unheard of down there. Boykins are purely field-bred, as there's no fancy--the breed is not recognized by the American Kennel Club, not in having been rejected, but as preferred by the breed club. That's the flip side of the UK Kennel Club saying no to the "Russian spaniel," which it calls a ESS x cocker cross rather than a new breed. Boykins are plenty of cross, too: a hotchpotch of Chesapeake Bay Retriever, English cocker and some claim Sussex spaniel. And though a spaniel, most are worked primarily as nonslip retrievers.

Their "cousin", by the way, the larger American Water Spaniel, after 75 years, has just "chosen" to become a flushing breed. For all that time, the AWS had been the only AKC-recognized breed ineligible for trials and tests--because the breed club was split as to whether it should be declared a flushing dog or a retriever. And the way AKC trials and tests are structured, a dog can compete in one venue but not both.

MG

[Maureen Cooper]

Crackerd, can you enter an official trial with a breed not recognised by the AKC? We cannot enter a gundog not recognised by our ANKC, hence no-one would import a Boykin spaniel when it is not recognised by the AKC. I have known of 2 Labrador x Curly Coated Retrievers who both worked well but neither could enter trials, except for Obedience where they can be put on the SR register. We have Irish Water Spaniels and Italian Spinones as recognised breeds here as well as the usual ones everyone knows.

Always a big debate as to why American Cockers are even in the gundog group, here and in the UK. Never seen one in the field, how about you?

Maureen