New entries to Novice

For discussion on anything retrieving related - trialing, training equipment, news, etc.

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New entries to Novice

Postby Prue Winkfield » Fri 22 Aug 2003 4:16 pm

Is there anyone here who is statistically minded that could tell us how many new handlers in each State have started in Novice over the past three years and are still competing say 1 year or 18 months later? thaught this might give an indication if the sport is in trouble and if so, how bad :?:
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drop out rate

Postby Peter Betteridge » Tue 26 Aug 2003 8:32 pm

prue
like you I would be very interested to see what the retention rate in NSW is .I believe that keeping new triallers is a question of offering a realistic and credible stake in which they can compete as well as a social scene and a backup of encouragement and help. :idea: The working gundog club of NSW has a strategy in place to market our sport and back it up with a training course, a video and a weekend workshop. the club will also continue to conduct trials and will run a mock trial all in 2004. A large promo day is scheduled for november which will be heavily advertized.WGC is going to promote a cell system which will link new triallers up with experienced ones for support and advice. lets hope the strategy proves successful :!: :!:
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Thu 28 Aug 2003 9:09 am

Peter - that all sounds fantastic! I may be wrong (hope I am), but can't imagine our top handlers willing to mentor new people. Will be interesting to see how it works. Do the people who are organising this know what the retention rate is? Jack Montasell keeps everything so we might be able to work something out for Vic if he is interested - I will ask. Prue
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Trialing numbers

Postby Kerry Webster » Thu 28 Aug 2003 8:02 pm

There was a Novice Retrieving Trial held over here last Sunday, with nineteen dogs entered, and all competing.
Out of the sixteen handlers only two, were new handlers this year. The other fourteen handlers have been competing over the past few years, or are seasoned handlers with up and coming young dogs.
One of the new handlers has been involved in retrieving through her daughter competing with a 4yr old dog, and is now competing with her own pups.
All bar one of the nine handlers in the Restricted stake on the same day, have had previous dogs through the stakes.

Though I cannot provide statistics this may give an idea of how solid the interest appears to be over here, and that most people are staying in the sport long term.

Kerry
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Fri 29 Aug 2003 4:40 pm

That is good that you have healthy numbers in your trials and that they stay. However, what I was wondering is how many people have started trialling in the last three or four years and are still competing. We find some people run for about 12 months and then drop out - do you have many people in their 20s and 30s competing? (another related issue of course!)
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retention rate

Postby kirsty (goldy) » Sun 31 Aug 2003 6:17 pm

Hi all,

I have to class myself in both the "new handlers" and "under 30s" category. I started in Retrieving Trials in about 1999 with my boyfriend's Golden Retriever. I was lucky enough to live in a country town (tamworth) that was also home to a relatively experienced trialler who took me under her wing, so to speak. I found the idea of trials thrilling - it was fantastic to see the dog doing what it was bred to do.
My first trial was equally exciting - the dog went well and I had a good time. The people were very friendly.
The only downer, and it was a BIG downer and is still an ongoing downer - is the repetitive remarks of "experienced triallers" which go along the lines of,"if you want to do any good in this sport get rid of that Goldie/GSP/Viszla (sp?)/Springer/Flatcoat etc etc and get a Lab". I find this to be extremely grating and annoying :? - no offense to all those triallers who have said this to me (and continue to say this to me).
The thing is, most newbies venture into Retrieving Trials for exactly the same reason I did - to let their dog enjoy doing something similar to what it was bred to do.

The sport itself is extremely time consuming once you get out of Novice. I would spend a minimum of an hour every day doing yard work with my dog (mostly in 15 minutes lots) in order to have him progress at an acceptable rate. I travel 2 hours each week to train on a property which offers variable terrain and water. Sometimes I take rec leave from work to do this. Entries to trials are quite expensive and so is the travel and accomodation - I would spend around $200 every time I go away. It costs even more if I take into account the pay that I have forfeited by not working the weekends that my work roster clashes with a trial.

Pigeons are expensive to buy and its horrible, for most softies like me, to justify killing them for sport. I'm known as the "pigeon lady" at the local poultry sale and it doesn't make me feel proud that they know exactly what I do with those birds.

So yes, as we all know, it is a major commitment in both time and money to take a dog past Novice. This is even more so for the new handler as it takes so much longer to learn the timing and techniques vital to success in higher levels. I know this because I quit for 12 months for exactly those reasons I have mentioned.

What got me back into trialling? Guilt mainly :wink: - there's nothing else that my dog enjoys as much as retrieving - but for people whose dogs also love obedience, tracking, agility and GWTs perhaps the guilt isn't there....

Sorry for the length of my reply - but I don't know what the answer is - I hope the WGC has success with its program next year.

Kirsty
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Postby Kirsty Blair » Mon 01 Sep 2003 12:56 pm

Hi again,

I know I never shut up but I just wanted to add one more thing to my comment about "breedists". Continuing on past Novice is daunting enough to a newbie without always having doubts about your breed of dog lingering in your mind. :? Its hard to make a commitment (of both time and money) to a sport when a number of top handlers have told you to ditch your dog and get a different breed. I have often felt like quitting Non-slip (and did) to do something Goldies are supposedly more suited to ie obedience trialling and sleeping on the lounge :wink: .
So can I ask, if we do get a mentoring system off the ground, that the mentors encourage and support newbies with whatever breed they have chosen.
At the end of the day, most of us want to go home with a dog we enjoy sharing our lives with - and, believe it or not, that's not always a lab.

Kirsty
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Mon 01 Sep 2003 4:45 pm

Here Here!! But several Goldies have their titles and I think one just got his at a trial in Canberra or NSW (Jim Hargreaves)? In Vic the Goldies have come on enormously in the last 10 years whereas the GSPs and all other breeds have gone backwards.
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Newbies

Postby Jason Ferris » Tue 02 Sep 2003 1:50 pm

Hi all

As one of the other new triallers in the NSW/ACT scene, I thought I would offer my thoughts. For the record I'm 34. I started trialling my first dog in late 2000 and have moved into Restricted this year. I also have a pup just starting in novice.

I agree with many of Kirsty's points (except the GR stuff as I have labs :wink:) To me the key issues in getting into trialling and sticking with it are:

- Finding out about the sport. Until you break into the trialling community, it is quite difficult to find out about it. It takes a conscious effort to hunt down clubs through Canine Control bodies and find out about training opportunities and trials. Even going along to watch is difficult as you need to find out when and where trials are. I think we could do better at promoting the sport and encouraging people to come along and check it out. The activities outlined in Peter’s post are great. This website is also an excellent move in the right direction, but we must do better in ensuring that trial schedules and upcoming events are posted in a timely fashion.

- New handlers really need to latch onto an experienced trainer who is prepared to help get them started and help solve the initial problems that occur when training your first dog, which otherwise can be big enough to put you off. I got into the sport with support and assistance from Barry Baker and Geoff Cole and am very grateful for their help. The mentor system mentioned by other posts is a great idea, but could be tricky to set up and keep running. Once you get going it really helps to be able train with other handlers also.

- Getting a good dog. Without entering into breed politics, it is important that handlers have a dog that is going be competitive and reward all the time, effort and expense that you put into training. It seems to be me that many people come to the sport looking for something to do with their existing dog and are disappointed when they are not competitive (there are notable exceptions – Laraine’s golden bitch Shaan springs to mind). The serious handlers do their utmost to find a dog which will competitive for trialling so they have a foundation to build on. Perhaps we need to run more beginners and derby stakes to encourage new people with the existing dog and make them think about what they could do with their next one.

- getting out and having a go. It can be quite intimidating running a dog for the first time. We need to support and encourage new handlers – letting them run as non-competing when their dog bombs, providing training opportunities, running inclusive social events around trials etc.

- pigeons. I came into the sport from a hunting background, so have never had a problem with the birds, but I can see that it would be a problem for some. That said, I would not advocate a move to dummies as training for a good hold and a soft mouth is a key part of retrieving and cannot in my opinion be usefully judged on anything but flesh and bone.

Cheers, Jason.
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Postby Kirsty Blair » Fri 12 Sep 2003 12:30 pm

pruew wrote: can't imagine our top handlers willing to mentor new people. Prue


Just on this note - I don't think it necessarily has to be the top handlers who provide support and encouragement to newbies. At this stage, I think just having someone to train with and to keep newbies motivated is most important. My weekly training session with Maureen, Pat and Flo (sorry guys to incriminate you :wink: ) keeps me motivated enough keep going even when I'm a bit disheartened.

In addition to the training videos put together by Geoff, perhaps we could have a library of books and videos available for members of the WGC. I would be happy to loan my few books until the club could build up a stock of its own. This would help to limit the cost for newer handlers whilst providing them with a good source of information.

Okay, I'll shut up now :wink:

Kirsty
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Postby Kerry Webster » Fri 12 Sep 2003 3:42 pm

I agree Kirsty, having a friend/s who are also in the sport, to help with your problems, make suggestions, and help you in your training, are a tremendous boost for anyone coming into retrieving.

Unfortunately, most new people I have met, are tentative about asking if they could be included in a training group, especially with trainers who are maybe training All Age dogs.

Some of the very experienced handlers appear reluctant to spend time helping new recruits, especially on a long term basis, but there are always a couple who do give of their time and expertise (???) to help others.

If nothing else, just being available to answer questions and offer advice, is of benefit to new handlers, and I have always encouraged these people to ask as many handlers as possible, to get an average of views, before deciding for themselves the training path to take for their own dog.

Just getting back to numbers, I have heard that Novice numbers are very low in NSW. Why is that ? Are there no new faces ? Has everyone progressed on to Restricted and All Age ? Were the Novice entries in good times made up of young dogs handled by experienced handlers ? or, have people given up and left the sport ? If so, why ?
Is it distance to trials, therefore, added costs ? Lack of support/training/training facilities/ or talent ?

It would be interesting to find out.

Kerry
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novice numbers in NSW

Postby Peter Betteridge » Fri 12 Sep 2003 5:11 pm

Kerry
NSW novice numbers have ben about line ball all year.A large field has about 15 dogs while most have 10 or 11.at this time of year ,novice numbers taper of as alot of the all age handlers are away and consequently so are their novice dogs.Many people that I have talked to have pulled out their dogs to train for restricted or all Age I am positive about next year .I beleive that the reason so many people pull their dogs out of trialing for extended periods is the incredibly high standard that we currently enjoy in NSW.The last restricted that I ran in was tougher than many All Ages that I have participated in over the years. the standard of the dog work was phonomenal. Lets hope for great things in 2004
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Newbies

Postby K Normanl » Sat 13 Sep 2003 4:08 am

Regarding newbies tentativeness.

It really does go both ways.

Newbies are often intimidated by well trained dogs ("my dog can never do that!") or put-off by more experienced handlers gruffness. But, experienced handlers often feel guarded in helping out newbies cause they often don't stick with it.

It gets old.....out of the last 5 or 6 new trainers I have helped in the past year or so, only one or two still train regularly. Not a good "survival" rate.

But I will never give up, we don't have enough dog folks around to blow off the new recruits.

8)

CS in Louisiana
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Thu 18 Sep 2003 5:00 pm

Jack Montasell has drawn up a spread sheet of all the people who have entered in trials since the start of 2001. As a result it has been possible to look at numbers - so here they are! In 2001 two new people started, in 2002 there were 5 and so far in 2003 there are 4 but of course we do not know if they will still be competing in a couple of years time. The people from 2001 and 2002 have competed this year. Between 2001 and 2002 about 15 other people ran in a couple of trials but then dropped out - most of them were non-lab owners. If the people who started this year continue( doubtful in at least two cases) that makes a total of 11 in three years which is better than I thought! what about everyone else?
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