Provision for mark throwers to call No Bird

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Provision for mark throwers to call No Bird

Postby J Cramond » Mon 03 Nov 2003 7:59 pm

What do everyone think of adding, to the rules, a provision, which allows the mark throwers to call - a no bird if they feel that a bird has not landed in an area, completely in a different (extremely difficult) "area" to other previous birds.

In that vein, giving a dog a rerun, if for argument sake, it takes a certain amount of time for humans/other dogs to locate a sunken wet bird or bird that was determined (by the judge) impossible for a dog to locate.

Julie Cramond
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Postby Jason Ferris » Tue 04 Nov 2003 9:01 am

Hi Julie

Wouldn't that mean that game stewards would have to be trained and accredited? Its hard enough getting people to sit on throwers without placing this responsibility on them.

Judges should ask stewards to let them know if a bird falls out of a defined area or in an unreachable location, but the "no-bird" call should remain with the judge in my opinion.

Ideally judges should allow for the wind and variation in the throw in setting their run to minise the chance of birds falling in a completely in a different (extremely difficult) area.

I can recall a case where a rerun was given to a dog due to a bird being impossible to retrieve - the bird hooked in a tree just out of reach of the dog (who tried its best to get it down).

Cheers, Jason.
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Re-runs

Postby Kirsty Blair » Tue 04 Nov 2003 10:33 am

Hi Julie,

I agree with Jason on this one. With the increase in the use of walkie talkies it is, I feel, more reasonable for the thrower to quickly inform the judge of any deviations in the position of the bird. It is then the judge's ultimate decision as to whether he asks the handler to send the dog or not.

Also, we often have other handlers working the throwers and it would open a whole new door to complaints about competitive advantage etc in terms of the thrower NOT calling a no bird.

In all states I've trialled in it is always a battle to get enough people to steward and to operate throwers. I think this rule change would make it even harder.

Certainly, I agree with the provision of a re-run if the bird is deemed to be impossible to retrieve. Of course, as always, it depends on the judge on the day! I have been in a novice trial where the run was abandoned because of a grebe which teased all the dogs so incessantly that not one of them left the dam to retrieve the pigeon. They all spent at least ten minutes circling the water as the darn thing popped up and dived, popped up and dived.... However, some judges would have continued with the run and lost all competitors in the first run.

Such is the nature of our sport....

Kirsty
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Tue 04 Nov 2003 4:35 pm

Julie - I am with you on this one but only for the major trials for the reasons stated by the others. It is certainly the judge's call but there must be a way of the thrower communicating with the judge if the bird is out of the area. It would only work in the larger trials where you get the most experienced people on throwers and the judge would have to be very clear on what was considered in the area and was not. Also it is in the major trials where multiple birds thrown would give the thrower time to communicate - in Novice and often in Restricted the dogs would have left the pegs by the time the call was made. I don't believe it should be in the 'rules' but could certainly be in a judges' guide of some sort.
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Postby Julie Cramond » Fri 07 Nov 2003 10:47 am

Once again, I submitted, a thread without checking my wording.

I accidently included "in the rules" - I did not mean to do so.

I suppose it is just in my experience, when being on the thrower, birds can land not where the judge has indicated and sometimes the best person to see the area of fall, is the bird thrower.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Postby Kerry Webster » Fri 07 Nov 2003 11:31 am

I really do feel there are times when a judge should call upon a field steward to declare a misthrow/no bird, especially if the thrown bird falls into a tree.

I had an All Age trial early this year, when both birds from a double mark, landed in trees. The judge was unaware, and, unfortunately, so were the stewards on the throwers, and my dog worked very hard in hot conditions to try and find the first bird. Being impossible, we were given a rerun.

This was probably a "one of" situation, and it would have been less stressful to us all, if the stewards had been able to see the fall of their thrown birds, but in other run setups where a throw is into a treed area, then I would think it commonsense to request a steward to observe whether the bird fell to the ground or not, and call a no bird if necessary.

Kerry
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