Additional titles

[Maureen Cooper]

Just been looking through National catalogues and it appears that most handlers with Obedience and Agility titled dogs as well as Retrieving titled are ladies. Exceptions are Bob Boodnikoff and Amand Golle in Queensland. Quite a few of these ladies have also had/have Retrieving Champions and knowing the amount of work required to train for these other disciplines then I think these ladies deserve a very big cheer. Why are men reluctant to compete in other aspects of dog work?

Maureen

[Prue Winkfield]

Could it be that in field and retrieving you have to WIN and the male of the species is normally the most competitive in just about everything -not to forget that ladies are best at doing more than one thing at once

[Chris, Jac Van Eekelen]

Yeah well just watch out for a certain little brown dog that's coming along nicely ,
he does have big boots to fill .My Weimarener may not have got her RTCH title but she had AUST Ch, CDX, NRD ,ET and ADM to her name.

[Gareth Tawton]

Maureen,

Easy answer for me on that one. Been there done that and BORING BORING BORING. I think you would find a number of handlers have done obedience in the past but enjoy the greater challenge in retrieving.

Gareth

[Diane McCann]

I think that Gareth is right. I too did obedience years ago, and enjoyed it, but eventually found it an overly regulated, pedantic and boring activity.

It may have changed now, and it may be different in other states, but at the end of my time there were rules such as 'can't have a non competing dog on the location' (hardly inviting to potential competitors) that I felt were very unnecessary.

Retreiving by comparison was like a breath of fresh air with so much more flexibility, common sense approaches and a 'look after each other' attitude from all involved. Training is also much more fun!

On the other hand I show dogs and I know that there are many out there that can think of nothing more boring than that. Each to their own and any activity enjoyed by dog and handler is a good one.

Cheers, Diane

[Maureen Cooper]

Hi Gaz, back again eh?! Hope you all had a good holiday. I just put this post in for comment as I have to admit I too lack the dedication to do Obedience, hence my admiration for those who do it. Bored me witless as well as my dog! Once she got CD, CDX became a task to her of finding a different way each time to bomb an exercise! Mind, you can hardly put Agility in the boring bracket and the exercise might just do you good! Though it might be boring to some, I still think the fact that so many of the ladies are successful means they have to put in many hours of training and that in itself is no mean feat. At least they dont have to tramp o'er hill 'n dale to train either!

Maureen

[Gareth Tawton]

Maureen,

To true!!! lots of time and dedication and boredom. Handlers that do this have incredible intestinal fortitude While in Ireland over xmas I think I saw the ultimate sit stay. I attended the Irish National Retrieving Trial. This was a live shoot with driven Pheasant Partiridge and Ducks. All dogs were expected to sit QUIETLY off lead next to their handler while the shoot went on. On the 3rd shoot I watched a shot duck fall from about 50 meters and crash down with in 3 feet of the dog. The dogs on the line watched the duck fly out of the trees straight over their heads and get shot to fall at their feet. I couldn't believe how staedy and quite the dogs were. Now that would take some serious steadying training!!!

Gareth

[Prue Winkfield]

Gareth - you lucky devil! Can you give us some info on how the event was vv ours - obviously the live birds are the main difference but what was the work like on blinds, etc? Did they have to do water work? For the Lab owners here, how do the dogs compare to ours? Prue

[Gareth Tawton]

Prue,

Dogs have to qualify for the Irish national each year. The catalogue lists the years qualifiers, when they qualified and who is actually entered. They had about 38 entered all Labs mostly black but more bitches than you would see in Australia. Goldens, Flatcoats and Irish water spanials are also allowed to run but do need to qualify!!!!

There were 4 judges and the field was split odds and evens with 2 judges for each group. Being a driven shoot that the dogs watch they get the opportunity to see each bird but in reality this is just a steadiness test. After the shoot the dogs come up to the line a and do a single retrieve which by now is realy just a single blind between 50 and 100 meters. The judge selects the bird and the start point for each dog. If there are a number of birds close together the judge will allow the competitor to pick any bird up. If the birds are seperated enough then the handler will have to pickup a precise bird. The judge may move the start line around dpeneding on where birds have been shot. The is a lot of luck as to when you run and which bird you are told to pick up. Some birds are in the open while others are in very very heavy cover. One dog gets a big cock pheasant while another gets a small hen partridge, while yet another get a wounded duck.

The stewards point to the general area of a bird, the rest is up to the handler. I found the lack of equality very difficult to understand from a judging point of view.

Comparing ours trial to theirs is almost impossible they are so different. Its like comparing flat track horse racing to steeple chase. However I would say that our AA dogs would be very competitive over there while most Irish dogs would probably struggle at first in Australia, at leats in AA. Jack Lynch who competed in similar trials in England said the same. I was very imressed with the Irish dogs willingness to face heavy cover but I suppose fresh shot game realy helps that. The dogs slipped very few whistles and handled well when required.

In simple terms the Irish trials are closer to their style of shooting than our trials are to shooting here. The trade off is a lack of equality, more luck involved and only single blinds which means the dogs aren't realy tested for marking and at this trial they weren't tested in water. I understand other trials sites do lend themselves to some water work.

Having now seen trials in the USA and Europe I think we should be very happy with the style of trial we have. They are closer to real shooting than the states but have much better equality and more roundly test the dogs than a driven shoot style of trial in Europe.

But thats just my opinion.

Gareth

PS Good dogs are good dogs no matter where you go. I am sure the Irish dogs if trained for our trials have just as much ability as our dogs and would do quite well.

[Maureen Cooper]

Irish dogs 'would do quite well'?? Maggie Hankinson's RT Ch Altiquin Stern JDX ADX CDX ( Imp Ire) has proved the point! Maggie has just got herself a lovely dark yellow girl, Glory, also ex Ireland.

Maureen

[Kerry Webster]

On the subject of competing in areas other than retrieving, I have tried my hand at obedience, agility, tracking and freestyle heelwork to music.

Obedience would have to be the most boring of them all, but, if your dog can achieve its CD title in three trials, this eliminates the most boring of the obedience exercises. CDX is not all that bad, and UD is thoroughly enjoyed by the dogs and handlers. Agility is a huge amount of fun for both dog and handler. Fitness can be a problem (more for the handler I think). Tracking is very satisfying, but also takes a huge amount of time in training, and also most often requires a second person to help lay a track.

Personally, I enjoyed doing all of these areas of dog work, and challenging myself to achieve, as I think most people who participate in obedience etc. would agree.

Nothing quite excites my dog as much as retrieving does, but that is the nature of the event. I would place agility and jumping pretty high up there for exciteabliity too.

As for why there are so many female handlers with retrieving titled dogs also having obedience and agility titles, maybe ladies enjoy doing more with their dogs. By that I mean being diverse in their training, and willing to put in the time. Who knows ? But, each to his own, I say.

Kerry

[Maggie Hankinson]

I would agree with Kerry, that if you can get past CD then Obedience starts to become more interesting and enjoyable for both dog and handler and I think the new rules may be addressing this be introducing a retrieve into the CD class. I found Guinness to be very capable in both Obedience and Agility, but doesn't appear to consider it serious work so gets distracted by the other competing dogs, which is probably a reflection of his trainer's attitude.

I would agree with Gareth's comments with regard to taking a fully trained dog from Ireland to compete here, they would find it difficult as the style of trialling is so different. I think our NZ competitor at the National probably found the same. I felt I would have been able to cope reasonably well with the tests that I have seen in UK although I haven't had the chance to watch a driven shoot.

I found Guinness very easy to train for our style of retrieving trial and considering he is my first All Age dog I expect he would have been more impressive with an experienced handler. The main problem we had in his early trials was a natural instinct to hunt cover so we had to put a fair amount of effort into marking. If the youngster is anything like her Uncle Guinness I will be very happy.
Maggie

[Lynne Strang]

I competed in Obedience quite a few years ago, till my dogs got their CDX, then stopped because I found the retrieving much more interesting for my dogs. Recently I have gone back to some obedience work with my young Tess and I find the latest methods of training such as clicker work much more rewarding and positive. The dogs pick up the behaviors quickly, avoiding much of the boring repetition and its more fun.
I have been helping with training classes for potential new handlers for retrieving and we find some are unable to progress because their dog does not have the basic obedience such as walking to heel and recall and the handler does not know how to teach them. We recommend they get help with how to teach their dog at home or in an obedience class before having to cope with the distractions in the field, as we want to keep them in the sport.
I agree with Maggie that the new rules for CD make it more interesting and the skills are relevent to obedience in retrieving, especially for new competitors. Of course its up to the individual if they have time to go in Obed Trials.
Lynne Strang

[Lynette Lennell]

I am new to retrieving and until last year with the help of some experienced triallers in SA, did not know much about it at all.
Prior to becoming hooked on retrieving I only did Obedience with my 2 Labs. Like any dog sport - the more you put in the more the dog will like what you are doing, therefore give it back with good results.
I think that the basis of all dogsports is some basic Obedience Training.
Good luck to all Triallers for the year ahead.

[Jackie Price]

There are two other men in Queensland who have obedience and retrieving titles, Keith Pratt's Weimaraner gained her Obedience Championship also her RRD title, and Wayne Haase again with another Weim who has his NRD and CDX titles. I agree obedience does get boring after a while, and you have to be extremely dedicated once you are training for UD, I found it extremely hard to train UD and retreiving so one has to go, that is why my Weimaraner Radar retired from the obedience ring once he gained his CDX title, to me owning a dog who gains a Retrieving Championship is one of the greatest acheivements in dog sports, I have the upmost respect for people who do both sports as it takes so much time. Perhaps that is why men do not do both sports "lack of time"
Jackie Price