How many new people coming into retrieving ?

[Kerry Webster]

I wondered how other states are going in regards to getting new owner/handlers interested and actively competing in retrieving. Over here we seem to be at a stalemate with newbies, with several owners attending training classes, but not venturing out into competition as yet.

Most puppies being bought, raised, trained and campaigned are owned by handlers onto their second, third or more, competing retriever, which is good, but, it would be great to have some new, and younger, blood coming up through the ranks.

Do other states have a problem with new people being active in retrieving ? Are there people attending training sessions, but not competing ? and Why ? What methods do individual clubs use to ignite curiosity in our sport, and then get owners to actually try their hand at it ?

One of the problems which I have witnessed, is that a prospective gundog owner/trialer attends an All Age trial and is overwhelmed at the degree of training/obedience required, and puts training their pup, into the too-hard basket. Whilst it is great to show these people the All Age dogs, obviously, it must be stressed to them that this level of training doesn't happen overnight or without a great amount of time and effort, and, that all these dogs started off as novices.

I do feel, however, that too many gundog owners not involved in our sport, consider retrieving as easy, and that any of their dogs can do it. Possibly, many can do a simple fetch, but when it comes to obeying commands, being steady, returning the bird to hand etc, then many fail, and this could be a stumbling block for owners who thought it was going to be simple.

How do others feel about this. Are newbies coming into the sport with too high expectations too soon ? Are they expecting to get results without the hard work ? Do we need to change their introduction into training their dog ? If so, how.
Is there enough known about our sport within the Canine community, and, are breeders telling puppy buyers that they can have a go at it.

Lots of questions there, but when we look at the handlers in trialing today, most are between 50 - 80 yrs old, so getting younger people involved is vital in keeping the sport alive.

How about voicing your view, suggestions on this topic.

Kerry

[Maureen Cooper]

Other than agreeing with your comments, Kerry, we did gain a couple in '05 ex training classes but whether either will carry on to All Age is another question.

Do you have Gundog Working tests in WA? They are quite well supported here and would have greater support if titles were awarded! We have vetoed titles as most are not held on game, neither is a shot fired so we are not testing for hard mouth or steadiness to shot or if gunshy. I know dogs who retrieve dummies well but demolish birds! However it is a step in the right direction and at our last training session we also held a GWT, with trophies.

Where to train and who to train with also come to mind. Training grounds are like gold here and too many handlers can mar a session. Too many and you might only get one run in, especially if you are a real novice and need to repeat runs. Building up an All Age run also takes time when you are training and also swapping throwers etc.

Maureen

[Prue Winkfield]

The last time this issue was raised, Jack M and I had a look at people coming into the sport and there appeared to be 2 or 3 a year but not many stayed with it. We have the same problems in Vic with the numbers now overall being the lowest ever. It would be an interesting exercise to contact the people who were trialling 10 years ago (or even 5) and see why they dropped out. Also, for the people who attend training days - why they don't compete with their dogs. Could that be a RAFT initiative? Certainly in Vic, we have all the records courtesy of Jack!

[Prue Winkfield]

To add to this - wonder why flyball, agility, etc are gaining so much - wonder what they do that we don't - could we get any ideas from them?

[Maureen Cooper]

They hold comps within the metropolitan areas so it does not cost an arm and leg in petrol and motels and entries!!! If I do a GWT it costs me $8 entry and $10 petrol max. RT's cost min. $18 entry, $70 petrol plus and $80-$160 motels!!!

Maureen

[Lynette Lennell]

Maybe the reason is you only need to get 3 passes/qualifications in Agility/Obedience/Jumping etc to get your Titles.
Most trials are also held in the Metro Areas and Start no earlier than 9am.
Also I would think that the travelling would put a lot of people off.

The other thing I found a bit daunting last year when testing the waters so to speak, was that most people were quick to criticise but not many took the time to explain the reason for the Criticism. On the other hand there was the odd 1 or 2 that could see some of our Dogs had some great potential and did take the time to explain where we were going wrong and what we should do in preparation for this year.

[Prue Winkfield]

Lynette - do you know if the dog completes the whole 'course' for jumping, agility, etc before being thrown out for failing or do they go out as soon as they fail a portion of the test? I blieve in Obedience you go through the whole test whether you fail a bit or not? What about tracking?

[Pam Lyons]

Prue, in tracking the dog completes the entire track whether or not it fails. The person at the end of the track (or article as it may be this year) must be found and the articles need to be picked up anyway.

In agility and jumping you may finish the entire course - unless your dog is 'out of control' and you are asked to leave the ring by the judge.

[Pam Lyons]

Oops, forgot to say that in obedience if you have your title you cannot finish all exercises if you fail one. If you don't have your title you may complete one more exercise. That applies to the Sydney metropolitan area - in country areas you can complete all exercises. In other States this varies. I know in Queensland you can complete all exercises (and even obtain a place) although you have not qualified.

[Kerry Webster]

Maureen,

We don't have working gundog tests over here. The GSP club holds an L plate for club members which is an easy introduction to small retrieves for those that want to have a go. There used to be puppy stakes but I haven't seen one of those for a very long time.

We are probably luckier than many in that there are a few training areas available within the metropolitan area, and more outside of this area if people are prepared to travel. Most trainers have a favourite site for training, and some like myself who live in the country have a choice of 3 or 4 training sites. Sharing with the masses is always going to be a problem I suppose, however it doesn't seem to occur often with most training sessions consisting of two or three persons.

On the whole, I think you would find (at least over here) that new handlers are welcome to participate in some sessions and are offered assistance by the more experienced handlers if asked.

I personally don't think that people are informed about retrieving. I certainly didn't for a long time. Over here we did a demonstration of the three levels of retrieving, and starting puppies off in their desire to retrieve, during the National Golden Retriever Show, and I was involved in a demo at the Perth Royal Show in 2004. Maybe more of this should be organised in an attempt to create interest.

Obedience, agility, jumping and flyball are easier pastimes to train for, in that an oval, park or back yard will suffice. Much easier than finding a suitable retrieving site. Also, with clubs having training days weekly, dogs can be trained amongst others, with plenty of help and suggestions for newcomers. Tracking has a similar problem to retrieving, in finding suitable areas to train, and a partner willing to spend time laying a track, and they too have small numbers of competitors. Time, I think is the real problem. Training a good dog in retrieving takes so much of it, a person needs to be patient and dedicated, as well as enthusiastic, and all too often, unfortunately, there is a need to get there fast, instead. Can't do that in this sport. I suppose we will always have this problem.

Kerry

[Colleen Davis]

Hi Kerry
Well I am a newby in NSW. My partner and I and our 2 weimaraners attended one of the training days organised by Maureen which encouraged us to give a trial a go. The hardest thing for us was the issues and expense of getting a gun licence, the distances involved travelling to trials (the closest trial is a 5 hour drive) and training difficulties ie: finding somewhere to train, people to train with, equipment etc. We have now attended a couple of trials where my partner Tony has handled our dog Ernie at at our last trial he actually managed to finish. Yeah. We have found most people at trials to be welcoming and helpful which has been great. From talking to people in other dog sports that I am involved in (tracking, obedience and showing) many people consider RT's to be a bit of a "closed shop" mostly due to the need for land to train at and the distances involved travelling to the trials and heaps of people have told be that its just too difficult - especially as you need 3 wins, not 3 passes to gain an "entry level" title as in most dog sports.
This year I am hoping to start trialling my bitch which I am sure will provide all spectators with much amusement.
Regards
Colleen

[Allan Bartram]

Hi Colleen, Here in WA we are lucky to have the Canine Association have a Corporate gun licence,this means competitors do not have to apply for individual licences.a big saving and sensible in that it keeps a number of very seldom used firearms out of circulation. I know other States have tried unsuccessfully to obtain one of these licences but it is certainally a plus for newcomers into our sport. the only critiria is that competitors have to be a member of the CAWA.
I believe that our sport does not appeal to young people because of the time neccessary to train dogs when young families take up so much "free" time . However there are exceptions eh Gareth?
Allan

[Colleen Davis]

Hi Allan
A licence like that would certainly be a benefit. The discussion I had with the people who send out the paperwork to get your shooters licence went around in circles and was very confusing - it took a long time to sort out that I wanted a shooters licence but not a licence to own a gun. They were quite insistant at one stage that they needed to inspect where I kept my gun - very hard when I dont own one. Anyway, hopefully we will have some fun at trials this year. If you are ever over this way look for the couple with 2 crazy Weimaraners.
Regards
Colleen

[Annie Warner]

Hi All

One other reason that has not been mentioned is the fact that so many people have to work at some stage or another over the week-end these days....
I was beginning to find the cost almost prohibitive and one way around that is for motel rooms to be shared a bit more - perhaps book a room for the solo girls and all could share the cost? Or vehicle sharing???

just some thoughts

annie

[Steve Grainger]

Hi all.

Retrieving trialing was something I had always wanted to do but for one reason or another I just didn’t get around to it, that is until the Labrador Club trial at Hartley last April. To say that it blew me away is an understatement, it was fantastic I had a great time and had full intentions of attending more if I could juggle it with work and family. Unfortunately fate took over when I had a heart attack last July and had to put a halt to any doggie things for awhile, but I hope to get back to a few trials this year if I can.
I agree with Annie on the work commitments dictating our leisure time. To attend a Retrieving trial closest to where I live at Maitland I’m looking at five hours of travelling time. I know that five hours isn’t all that far to travel but when you add work commitments to that it can be a bit hard, so the easier alternative is a GWT closer to home at least till I retire from work anyway.
Another problem I’ve found is finding a training partner to suite the time I have to train.
(come on retirement)

Steve Grainger.