RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

For discussion about Retriever Ability Tests (formerly Gundog Working Tests), schedules and results.

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RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Peter Butterfield » Wed 15 Feb 2017 3:05 pm

Have Your Say on RATG *** OPEN THREAD ***

The rules for the Conduct of Retrieving Ability Tests for Gundogs (RATG) are up for review this year and state RAFT’s are expected to invite triallers to submit suggestions for changes shortly. Any rule changes adopted will take effect from 1 Jan 2019.

This thread has been opened for triallers and judges who may like to raise discussion on any matter/s related to RATG and its rules, with potential to receive feedback from fellow participants nationwide.

Click here to view / download a current copy of the RATG rules.

These rule reviews occur only once every five years so make the most of this opportunity to air any thoughts you might have by posting a Reply here.

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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Claire Wade » Fri 24 Feb 2017 6:29 am

Here are my issues:
1. Whether heeling between the control point and the firing/start point is judged as part of the exercise score.
* I have had a few competitors state that because heeling is judged elsewhere it should not be judged here. I have always regarded it as judges discretion but some clarification would be helpful.
2. In some states it is regarded as mandatory that dummies are provided by the organisers.
*My reading of the rules is that this is discretionary. It would be nice to have clarification on this and perhaps a direction for whether people can provide their own and clubs provide in case the competitor dummies are forgotten or unsuitable so that people can still compete.
3. Many of us would like to see a more challenging level in RATG - e.g. to include a blind find retrieve. This is often argued against because few grounds or clubs are sufficiently equipped, staffed or have the grounds to enable this. Perhaps there could be a limited number per year perhaps run in conjunction with RT. Perhaps a limited number of events could run ONLY the higher level on that day.
4. It is ridiculous that RATG cannot be held on a day when there is a Gundog show but CAN be held on the same day as a retrieving trial run by a different club. That is just silly. Please fix to allow overlap with breed show but not trial. I am actually one of the few competitors that DOES show and overlap with a show would never be an issue for me.
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Trevor Stevens » Sun 23 Apr 2017 2:12 pm

Hi Claire
I just picked up on this - not having seen it before as I usually just look at the retrieving stuff.
1 I have always thought that heeling between the pegs was marked as part of the retrieving exercise, and I judge it accordingly.
2 The rules state that game (dummies) may be provided by the clubs but if not supplied then competitors should provide their own.
The idea of having exactly the same dummies for each competitor is that they all look, fly and land exactly the same. There is a degree of equality.
I understand that in NSW it is normal for competitors to provide their own. In Vic, clubs generally provide them (using, in most cases, a heap of dummies purchased by RAFT). The club having made the decision to provide the dummies then specifies that their dummies must be used. It hasn't been a problem except on a few occasions some interstate competitors are a bit miffed that they cant use their own because apparently their dogs wont pick up anything else ???
3 RATG is intended to be about basic obedience and basic retrieving. It isn't intended to be set it up an an alternative to retrieving trials (or obedience comps).
4 Not sure about this point. Maybe it's a NSW thing?
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Jennifer Prestidge » Thu 27 Apr 2017 8:06 pm

4. In reply to point 4 most Gundog shows are held in conjunction with RATG Trials. The Golden Retriever club of NSW, the Labrador club, United Retriever and Gundog Society all run RATG at their shows.
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Allan Bartram » Fri 28 Apr 2017 6:49 pm

Point 4 appears to be a local rule implemented by Dogs NSW, not a National rule.
If you want it removed then your NSW RAFT committee need to approach your Governing Council for amendment.

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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Ray Temple » Tue 02 May 2017 3:13 pm

The Retrieving Australia Forum is a great place to raise and discuss topics of concern to trailers.
However if trailers have an opinion on the RATG rules and wish to raise some potential changes then I suggest that submissions to their State Control be made in accordance with the criteria set out in the notices of the recent State Control journals.
Changes to the rules comes around every 5 years, so if you have any concerns, suggestions or recommendations please make a submission to your State Control.
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Sandra Goldsmith » Thu 04 May 2017 10:09 am

From Dogs NSW April Journal as referred to in previous post

1. Review of the Rules for the Conduct of Retrieving Ability Tests
for Gundogs (RATG)
2. Rules for the Conduct of Field Trials for Pointer & Setters Trials
3. Rules for the Conduct of Field Trials for utility Gundogs
Submissions for changes and/or amendments to the aforesaid
Rules will be accepted by the NSW RAFT Committee by
16 May 2017.

Please forward submissions to Dogs NSW Office, PO Box 632,
St Marys NSW 1790, or by email to info@dogsnsw.org.au.
Submissions should include the following detail:-
a) The current rule numbers & rule detail
b) The proposed amendment
c) A full rationale for the proposed amendment

Useful links if you are considering to submit a new rule or change to an existing rule and

!. Correct Format for Submissions with examples
http://ankc.org.au/media/1036/13327ankc ... uments.pdf

2. Time Frame for rule review process

The below items are noted as discussed at our Ratg Judges forum 11th July 2015

Higher Level or Championship Title

Introduce a pass on game required for all titles

Introduce Blinds, Two Birds to Open Level

Use of Docken Ducks

Downgrade exercise one and incorporate into the retrieving exercises or remove altogether

Include a deduction for stepping outside the pegs - up to 5 pts

Can stay in open indefinitely
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Peter Butterfield » Thu 04 May 2017 12:44 pm

Alas, my written proposal to the above mentioned forum re: dummies must have hit the cutting room floor. Lack of interest probably!!! Here it is again for comment if anyone else has views about this rule one way or the other?

Proposal - RATG Rule 8.6
RAFT to consider recommending amendment or removal of RATG-8.6 – texts regarding dummy colour at the next rule review.

Interpretation of sections of 8.6 pertaining to colour of dummies, namely: “Dummies should be… …of a subdued colour.” and “…white dummies shall not be used.” where club dummies are not supplied, is subjective as to what constitutes “white” or “subdued” and causes angst for trialists who are denied the use of their dummies.

New canvas dummies are supplied in a bright shade of white. To comply with the rule requires modification with no imperial reference to follow. At a trial, offenders have little facility to remedy the situation or are placed at a disadvantage if they are compelled to use third party dummies.

There are numerous solutions that might be considered to improve this rule ranging from accurate colour reference to removal of the requirement.

If the above is generally agreed with, RAFT to call for open comment with a view to drafting alternate text to be submitted to the next RATG rule review.

Peter Butterfield 03/07/2015
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Re: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…

Postby Peter Butterfield » Thu 25 Jan 2018 9:40 am

[Note: This topic has been re-posted by Admin following a technical problem]
SUBJECT: RATG Rule Review – Have Your Say…
Postby Jeff Griffiths » Sat 20 Jan 2018 10:23 pm

Hi All in NSW

Please see my post of same date on the General thread on RA about 'Rules Reviews' with original post by Trevor Stevens. This includes current RATG Rules review process.

Dogs NSW RAFT is holding a public meeting on Saturday 10 February 2018 to discuss submissions that have been made to ANKC on RATG Rules.

If you are unable to attend the meeting Dogs NSW RAFT member Jenni Duncan can be contacted if you wish to make input.

Again, see the post under General on RA headed up'Rules Reviews'for full details.

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