Water handling

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Water handling

Postby Prue Winkfield » Thu 15 Mar 2007 11:25 am

As I think it is good to keep this part of our forum going, have a question .
I have spent the summer doing swimby - first in a small area which has since dried out, then transferred to a larger dam where I had to take a few steps back, then to a large dam where the handling was to keep straight lines on angles, now to a river where I tried left and right casts over the river,having identified the pile first, and the dog (could use another word :lol: ) acted as if she had never been given casts in or around water in her life. Question: how long does it take to transfer behaviour from one place to another? Know dogs are very place oriented but problem has not occurred on land - is it because it is harder to find different pieces of water for training?

Should add that this is the first dog trained in swimby - previous dogs just casting drills and seeing the results wonder how much better/important swimby is compared to using standard casting drills?
Prue Winkfield
 
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Swim By - Understanding the Concept.

Postby Robert Tawton » Fri 16 Mar 2007 3:45 pm

Dear Prue,

Swim-by is all about gaining control, especially when the dog is working in water. For example, if a dog is returning with an item of game (or a dummy) and is not taking the desired line (also known as cheating) then having the ability to stop the dog while it is transit and to cast it back to the original pick-up point, before calling it in along the desired line is of great benefit. It should also be remembered that Swim-by, like most exercises in water, requires fair degree of maintenance. Swim-by also underpins channel swims.

In my experience, the degree of difficulty experienced while transitioning pattern work of any sort into field situations is a direct measure of how well the dog understands the relevant concept. Put another way, the degree of difficulty is a reflection of how thorough the handler has been in the teaching and proofing phase – the more thorough the handler is the less likely undue difficulties will be experienced.

As an experiment you might like to try the following. Return to your Swim-by dam and place two dummies at the “back pile” position and one dummy at either end of the dam. Position yourself opposite the back pile and 10m from the waters edge. With the dog in the front finish position give it a Right Hand (RH) back towards the “back pile”; when it reaches the centre of the dam, stop the dog and give it a Left Hand (LH) over to retrieve the LH dummy, after which have the dog exit the water from the RH end of the dam (i.e. Swim-by you) before returning to you to deliver.

If that is successful, repeat the exercise but on the opposite hand i.e. LH back, stop the dog, RH over to retrieve the RH dummy, exit the water at the LH end of the dam etc.

Now position yourself near one to the corners of the dam and about 10m from the water. From your side send your dog on a line parallel with the long side of the dam and 10m from the waters edge. When the dog reaches the original send point, stop the dog and give if the appropriate over cast towards the remaining “back pile” dummy. After the dog retrieves the back pile dummy, stop the dog in the centre of the dam and give it an angle back cast so that it exits the water from the far end of the dam. How well your dog completes this set of exercises will tell you a lot about how thorough you have been thus far and/or how well the dog understands the basic concepts.

Best of luck and a full report is expected.

RWT
Robert Tawton
 
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Sat 17 Mar 2007 8:08 am

Thanks Bob - didn't think anyone was going to reply! Have revisited the first part of your reply on several occasions but certainly not the last para so the next warm day will give the whole exercise a go and let you know.

Do you think you should need to do three hand casting over water as a separate exercise? After three sessions, she is now casting perfectly across the river but imagine if I go to another river will have the same issue :?
Prue Winkfield
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri 14 Feb 2003 9:17 am
Location: victoria

Water Handling

Postby Robert Tawton » Sun 18 Mar 2007 7:05 pm

Dear Prue,

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “the next warm day”? While ever the water temperature is above +9 degrees C there is no need to worry about working dogs in water for even extended periods of time.

In response to your question, imagine the following scenario which is based on part of a test that for some (depending on whether the handler had drawn an odd or an even number) was their first Run in a National. You are standing on the edge of a plateau that gently slopes down to the river some 20 feet below. You are looking down the river with the water to your right. At a distance of about 130m the river bends to the left such that dogs on the near river bank and beyond 130 m would be out of sight. At about 140m and about 3 - 5 m from the shoreline were several rocks in the water, amongst which a blind had been placed. These rocks were visible from the “Firing Point”. In my view the perfect run would have been to line your dog down the slope and along the river bank. When the dog was at a distance of about 125m the handler would hit the Stop whistle and then give the dog a 45degree right hand back cast into the water and the area of the blind. An alternative approach was to line your dog down the slope and along the river bank stopping the dog at about 100m. At this point the handler would give the dog a RH over cast into the water and when the dog reached a sand bar in the river, stop the dog. Now the command was a LH angle back cast and when the dog reached the far end of the sand bar the handler should again stop the dog. The next command would be a LH over cast into the water and to the area of the blind.

Does the above answer your question regarding the need to do angle casting drills into water? It should be remembered that the need to be able to cast a dog off or over points and/or islands does not come up on a regular basis, but often surfaces in the big and important trials.

Kind regards, RWT
Robert Tawton
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon 17 Nov 2003 9:51 am
Location: Canberra,ACT,Australia

Postby Prue Winkfield » Mon 19 Mar 2007 10:03 am

Thanks Bob - it certainly does answer the question, not that I can see myself in a major trial like that! Am sending you a PM about the experiment as don't think anyone else would be particularly interested. Prue
Prue Winkfield
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri 14 Feb 2003 9:17 am
Location: victoria


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