RETRIEVING AUSTRALIA FORUM

Hi all

One of my dogs takes a few steps and loops around to the left before sitting on the whistle. It is an established habit unfortunately which I find irritating but didn't attend to when I should have during her basic training. Does anyone have any suggestions on remedial actions I might take?

Cheers, Jason.

jason
have you ever thought of a target pad?????????????????
check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAbrDhF1c3s
or you could ask Geoff Cole, he pioneered the spinning sit in Australia. He has one of the most amazing overhead pulley systems on his backpile that i have seen.it is very very innovative and almost fullproof if you wont a good spinning sit. he also has a backpile like a very skinny cricket net where it is impossible to loop
Otherwise i have found that by lobbing fun bumpers over my head like a grenade and then suddenly baulking the throw and blowing a sit whistle, your dog will naturally spin towards you.the second he does and you get eye contact reward him and throw him a fun bumper.The quicker he spins the quicker he gets a retrieve
Just some ideas I'm sure others will be able to do better

peter

This is an interesting drill!
Can this cause popping as the dog in the video seems to be antisipating at times?
what would be the ratio to stop popping of right thoughs?
How far though would the dog be before starting using this process?

tony

You can try with a rope keeping it all fairly short but you might get problems with anticipation which I did

Hi Jason,

I was watching Danny Farmer and Judy Aycocks latest DVD on the weekend. Judy mentioned that once a dog learns a loopy sit it is one the hardest things to correct. She like me teaches a quick set at short distances with a rope and check chain. Its ideal with 2 people so first the dogs learns on a recall then on command during pile work if that makes sense.

Gareth

Hi Jason,

To fix a problem you first have to analyse exactly what the problem is; to me a loopy sit is (when all things are considered) a slow response to the “sit” command. The dog’s athleticism or lack thereof may be a factor, but in your case I do not think this is an issue. Perhaps you should consider a refresher course on teaching the dog to sit quickly to the whistle using a leash, check chain, heeling stick, voice then and whistle. Once the dog was fully conditioned to the whistle sit, you might consider a short course of teaching left and right hand back, starting from the front finish position. The purpose of this approach is to condition the dog to “about turn” quickly and with little of no flare. The closer the dog is to you in the front finish position, the straighter will be the “about turn”. Next I would place the dog on a rope while still practising left and right hand backs, but this time whistle command the dog to sit before it reaches the dummy, using the rope to ensure compliance. Do not forget to let the dog have lots of freebees so that anticipating the “sit” will not be an issue and it will also to maintain momentum.

Once you are satisfied the dog will reliably “sit” the whistle without the aid of the rope, you should return to your “normal” training for blinds. Each and every time you get a loopy sit in this environment you should immediately stop the exercise and return to left and right backs using the rope. In other words there is a consequence for the dog each time is produces a loopy sit.

Regards, RWT

Hi Jason,

In my earlier response I said;
[quote= Once you are satisfied the dog will reliably “sit” the whistle without the aid of the rope, you should return to your “normal” training for blinds. Each and every time you get a loopy sit in this environment you should immediately stop the exercise and return to left and right backs using the rope. In other words there is a consequence for the dog each time is produces a loopy sit. [/quote]

I have given this advice further consideration and offer the following;
Instead of returning to your “normal” blind training, I now suggest you revisit “Double T” with the back pile at 90m and the “over piles “each 25m from the central line, with the stopping points located at 25m and 50m from the “send point”. The rationale underpinning this configuration is that the “back pile” distinctly separate from the casting piles (aids momentum and reduces any tenancy to pop) and the proximity of the casting piles will introduce significant suction from one pile to another, which in turn is likely to present additional opportunities to stop and cast the dog. The formality of this set up will also encourage you to implement my advice as to what to do if there is even the slightest suggestion of the “loopy sit” returning.

Best of luck, RWT

Thanks everyone for your advice. I have done a couple of sessions of short back to pile and sit to pile drills and in doing so have discovered that the problem is more fundamental than I had previously identified. The dog actually doesn't like to turn tightly to her left - either for a right hand back or on a sit whistle. My next step is to start running a back to pile drill with the dog sitting hard up against a mesh fence which forces her to turn tightly.

I also combined the above drills with the false fun bumper drill suggested by Peter, and demonstrated by Bill Eckett in his second seminar. It provided a nice way of reinforcing the lesson to close the sessions.

Thanks again,

Jason.

Jason
I cant believe that Bill Eckett has stolen my drill!!!!!!!!!!!! My mistake for not seeking an international copywrite.I developed a "Happy sit" program back in the early 1990's when I was training"Gabby" to stop.Basically I would take her for a walk with a bumper stuffed in my back pocket I would wait till she became distracted and then blow a stop whistle ,as soon as I got eye contact and stability I would hike out a fun bumper or give her a treat.It became a game with the message that I wonted to get thru to her , that the quicker she sat the quicker she got a reward.later on in the drill the reward would be a caste towards a pre planted bumper.You can avoid the looping sit by selectively only blowing sit whistles when you dog is pottering.Once you have established the mamim or "charged "the whistle you can use this drill when your dog is in serious motion and eventually on a backpile.
Glad i was of some help Jason

Hi Jason

If the dog has problems turning to one side tightly and not the other have you considered a physical problem. An old injury perhaps? A chiro visit or a vet who has experience in performance dogs like greyhounds may help. Perhaps the dog has a spine or shoulder problems.
Just a thought

Laraine

With the happy bumper drill which I have used over the years for getting a snappy sit am now wondering if throwing a bumper when the dog sits and then letting him get it is why I have problems with double falls?!