AREA OF FALL

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AREA OF FALL

Postby Carlo Iacobucci » Fri 15 Feb 2008 8:25 pm

I would be interested to find out What method can be used to convey to a dog that it has reached the AOF and to put on a hunt,especially on a blind.One can stop the dog with a whistle sit,but then ? ?
Cheers ,CARLO.
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Re: AREA OF FALL

Postby Kirsty Blair » Sat 16 Feb 2008 7:25 am

Hi Carlo,

Most people condition a command such as "yes" or "find it" to indicate to the dog that it needs to switch on its nose and commence a tight hunt. The method I have been taught by a couple of successful triallers seems to do the job nicely.

Find yourself a nice bit of reasonably heavy cover (I just use long grass) and, with your dog at heel throw a neutral coloured dummy into the cover only a couple of metres. The principle is that the heavy cover will force the dog to hunt.

I send the dog in with the command "find it". This should be an easy retrieve. Next step for me is to put the dog away and toss the dummy in or to go for a walk and, when the dog isn't looking, toss the dummy into cover. Then, standing quite close to the dog I send the dog in with the command "find it". Big praise if it comes out with the dummy. If not, still enthusiastically send the dog back in with "find it".

When the dog is putting on a very keen hunt and coming up with the dummy every time without bailing out of the cover I make it a bit harder. I send the dog into cover without a dummy and command "find it" . Each time the dog ceases the hunt and bails out I send it back in with the command "find it". Then, without the dog seeing, I toss the dummy into the area so that the dog is rewarded for its efforts. The principle behind this is to teach the dog that, if commanded to do so, it should persist with a hunt in a given area regardless of whether it believes there is anything there or not. It teaches the dog to trust your judgement.

All this initial work is conducted at close quarters. You want to stay close to ensure your dog maintains a tight hunt. If you throw the dummy into cover 30m away you will have little opportunity to encourage him to hunt the right area, he may not find the dummy, then you may not find the dummy, then he's learnt nothing and you'll have to find the phone number for Specialised Gundog Accessories to buy a new dummy :wink:

As I said, this method has been taught to me by some good Australian trainers. Its worked for me so far (in fact I've used it to encourage hunt in my work dogs as well!) and it appears to work for them.

Good luck!
Kirsty
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Re: AREA OF FALL

Postby Robert Tawton » Sun 17 Feb 2008 6:57 pm

Hi Carlos,

Kirsty has provided you with a description of the “Hunt’em Up Drill”, but instead of using dummies you will find it more productive to drag a pigeon through the area and even pluck a feathers to enhance the scent in the area. With the pigeon in your pocket, encourage the dog to hunt the area and after a short while and when the dog is looking in another direction, drop the pigeon into the cover. Eventually the dog will find it and should be praised. Over time and in different areas you should increase the time the dog has to hunt before you drop the “prize”. The command, which is repeated when ever necessary, varies from handler to handler of which, “Yes, yes”; “find it”; “seek” and ‘hunt’em up” are the most popular. I personally favour one word commands and so use “seek”. If your dog starts to leave the scented area before the “prize" has been dropped or before finding the “prize”, you should call the dog back into the area and encourage your dog to re-establish its hunt by repeating the “seek” command as necessary.

BFN, RWT
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Re: AREA OF FALL

Postby Carlo Iacobucci » Sun 17 Feb 2008 7:17 pm

Thankyou Kirsty and Robert for the advice,I shal put it into practice.

Cheers,
CARLO.
Carlo Iacobucci
 
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Re: AREA OF FALL

Postby Prue Winkfield » Thu 04 Sep 2008 2:32 pm

Another question to judges re area of fall - if you were briefing a trainee judge how would you describe how to define the area of fall?
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Re: AREA OF FALL

Postby Bill Allen » Thu 07 Jan 2010 11:59 am

Hi ther Carlo.
I like Kirsty's comments/methods a lot & have used similar myself. However, I think that much thought needs to go into teaching the dog marking correctly to start with. There's a number of consideration to take in.
For starters; with humans our eyes are basically on the same plane so we can triangulate to judge distance. It's easy to look at a sitting rabbit & state "it's 40 yeards away", but a dog's eyes are not on the same plane. This gives them greater peripheral vision which is a defensive mechanism to combat predators sneaking up on em. As such they cannot triangulate as humans do. A dog will look at said rabbit & think to himself "that rabbit is this side of the brown bush but the other side of that black rock. He marks reletive to what is around him. Just throwing an item into a paddock of grass with nothing to mark against will usually result in the dog hunting in ever growing circles for the item till he finds it, rather than actually marking the fall. So we need to teach the dog to mark. After all, when he's home he sees the garage 15 metres away, the house 5 metres away, fence 10 metres away. Then we take him into the field & expect him to mark a bird at 150metres. There's a number of drills that can help such as the 'wagon wheel' (teaches marking at varying distance with varying background).
There's also the 'watch'(look) command to teach. Some dogs learn it easilly whilst others dont. Some are naturally good markers, others aren't & require teaching. It's no use telling the dog to 'watch' & then pointing a gun in front, when the dog is 'watching' left,back,behind, any other direction. The dog needs to be taught to 'watch' in front when given the command. Some learn through experience but that means a lot of missed birds till he does. With my pups I use a pigeon with a clipped wing. Get a mate behind a tree (say 40 metres away for a pup) tell the young dog to 'watch' (you may have to hold his head to start with) & get your mate to release the pigeon (dont let the dog retreive the bird). When the bird attempts to fly his wings will 'clap' & draw the pups attention as it lands. 1/2 a dozen times is enough to start with then take him away. Eventually you can release the pigeon a few times for him to 'watch' & then throw a dead bird for the pup to retrieve. Within no time the pup will learn to stare holes in the sky in front looking for his pigeon, when given the 'watch' command.
Once the dog is 'watching' & marking well I like to avoid commands when the dog is in the area of fall. If he's marked the general fall then methods as described by kirsty will see him persistantly hunt that area quite in a determined manner. Beware of commands, especially with young dogs as they can learn to await your command before picking up the bird.Teach him to use his eyes & hunt the area through learned behaviour rather than through being told. Once he locates the bird he needs to learn to pick it up without being told, & be encouraged to return to you as fast as he can.
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Re: AREA OF FALL - question for Bob Tawton

Postby Bill Allen » Fri 08 Jan 2010 2:54 pm

Hi again Bob.

Just a smallish question. You wrote;

"I personally favour one word commands and so use “seek”. If your dog starts to leave the scented area before the “prize" has been dropped or before finding the “prize”, you should call the dog back into the area and encourage your dog to re-establish its hunt by repeating the “seek” command as necessary. "


I also use the 'seek' command when the dog is in the area on a blind retrieve (if he has not managed to find it by himself) & I use a hand signal consisting of a wave, back & forth of the free hand (other is holding gun naturally) across my body at knee level (hand/arm extended down at full stretch so to speak). I am just wondering what your thoughts are regarding hand signals to accompany the 'seek' command. What hand signals are generally used/favoured for the seek command?
Thanks.
Bill.
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