Stopping to Shot

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Stopping to Shot

Postby Gareth Tawton » Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:08 pm

Hi everyone,

I was recently asked How I teach a dog to stop to shot. I had to be honest and replied I don't. My last couple of dogs all seem to travel a high speed both out and back. As a result they tend to look and acknowledge two birds or double falls if they see them but never stop to shot. I know it looks impressive when a dog does do it but it has not been high on my agenda of training ideas. As a judge I don't care as long as the dogs looks for the fall of game.

Does anyone have a particular drill to encourage this? My worry is that if you start whistling a dog to sit on every 2 bird or double fall he may become a bit poppy and unsure of himself.

Gareth
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Tue 09 Mar 2004 10:49 pm

No drill to offer but for those that can - go hunting!
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Postby Julie Cramond » Wed 10 Mar 2004 2:06 pm

Gareth, great topic.

In my ponderings , LOL, I have come to the conclusion that I will stop my dog to shot.

I think at a basic level in training my dogs become confused with dry shots (to indicate blinds) for example in trials.

In football ground training I add the concept of falls on the return (with varying degrees working closer to the line). I also add a lot of diversions once the dogs handle well in training. I am currently training with diversionary marks on the way to an the original mark or blind.

All this takes so many training sessions.

I look forward to hear other peoples opinions.
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Postby Maureen Cooper » Wed 10 Mar 2004 2:37 pm

I do train to stop to shot as the rule book states in rule 7.(h) a well trained dog should stop on command and to shot. Kirsty trains with us and our drill is to set up a two bird and as the dog is returning with the first bird, we stop the dog with whistle/ command, call 'watch', the 2nd bird is released and fired at with the cap gun, the dog then called in and sent for the two bird. Your helper does not release the second bird until the dog is stationary.

Sometimes the terrain will prevent a dog from seeing the bird cast if it does not stop and many years ago I was told never to be in a hurry to take the gun down from firing at the second bird as a dog can look at its handler to see where the gun is pointing and I have had this happen as my first dog was not taught to stop to shot and as Gareth says, she just did it naturally on most occasions.

The advantage of training for it is that the dog does get cued to the second shot by the word 'watch' and usually then stops and marks the fall more accurately. The whistle can be dispensed with as this occurs.

The disadvantage can be 'propping' on the way back as pointed out, in which case revert to a few straight marks. I also usually set this exercise up on the oval before venturing out into the field by throwing a dummy ( or having one thrown!), stopping the dog etc as described. This is done initially at a pretty short distance too so you can stop the dog running in on the second bird.

Maureen
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Postby Jack Lynch » Thu 11 Mar 2004 8:26 am

The rules do say that dogs should stop to shot, but I believe that this was derived from field trials which,in England were usually contested by spaniels, these dogs would quarter the ground directly in front of the handler whilst walking up game,these dogs were trained to stop to shot and to flushing of game as a test of steadiness, as a judge I do not expect a dog to do either of these actions, as long as the dog acknowledges the (flush) or the flight of the bird and then proceeds to complete the job that he was originally sent to do is good enough me.Training a dog to stop to shot in retriever trials can backfire on you as it did with me at the National in W.A., Two of the runs were running simultaneously and very close together,I sent my black dog Jake for a retrieve, a shot was fired on the neighbouring run whilst Jake was out of sight from me,I was asked by the judge to call him in because he had stopped working. apparently he had stopped to the neighbouring shot, what a way to to go out of a National, so I do not train for shot stopping any longer.Hope that some you find this information usefull.

Regards, Jack Lynch.
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Postby Gareth Tawton » Thu 11 Mar 2004 12:10 pm

Jack,

I watched that run at the national in WA and certainly felt for you. Judges that are co judging runs should keep inmend just how close runs that are on at the same time are to each other.

Gareth
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Postby Maureen Cooper » Fri 12 Mar 2004 11:32 am

I understand the problem as I too was watching that run,Jack, but maybe the fact that I use the word 'Watch' is a better cue than just the shot alone as the word cues the dog to stop and look. I have seen so many dogs keep running and flick their head the wrong way when the shot is fired or not even acknowledge the shot. Any more ideas anyone???

When at the firing peg for a mark I use the word 'mark' too and not 'watch' so I guess it could depend which word one uses in that situation too.

TTFN
Maureen
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Postby Kerry Webster » Fri 12 Mar 2004 11:55 am

Hi All,

I must say I personally like watching, when a dog stops to shot. It just appears that the dog is switched on to happenings on the run, and is attentive.

I haven't taught any of my dogs to stop to shot. My Golden does it naturally, without any prompting from me. The young Lab, having only had two/bird retrieves, so far in trials, almost stops and looks in the direction of the thrown bird. I feel happier if I can see that my dog has actually acknowledged the fall of the two bird/doublefall.

Re Jack's episode at the Nationals in W.A.; even though I was working at that trial (Lady dog's business caused us to not compete), I didn't see the run that Jack is talking about.

Just for everyones info. we have ANRTC trials here where for Novice we have three judges on simultaneous runs, then Restricted has the same, then All Age has two judges each having two runs to judge and running them simultaneously, so competitors go from Run one straight on to Run two. Most times, these runs are within 100 yards of each other, so our dogs have to be focused on the retrieve they are on and learn to ignore shots fired on adjoining runs. Novice dogs obviously, have the most trouble adjusting to this, but really, the Restricted and All Age dogs do not seem to experience problems.

Kerry
My goal in life is to become as wonderful as my dog thinks I am.
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