delivery problems

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delivery problems

Postby Susie Partridge » Mon 04 Oct 2004 4:11 pm

How I can get my 11 month old bitch to deliver without dropping the dummy? We also have problems with the 'take' bit of take hold carry.
I haven't had any problems teaching her basic obedience, nor hold, nor give, but can't seem to make her hold until told to give it up when in a retrieving situation and/or happy dummy. In a formal stick it in her mouth, walk up to 50 metres away, call her, she's fine, just the 'retrieving' bit.
I have to fess up to being a force fetch drop out at this stage :oops: which may well have impacted the problem. Although the dropping problem has been with us from puppyhood.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
cheers
Susie
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Postby Prue Winkfield » Mon 04 Oct 2004 5:07 pm

Susie - something I have found that can help is calling the dog to heel as she approaches and walk away with her heeling holding the dummy. Then sit her and take delivery from the front as usual. We used this successfully on a dog that had been trained to spit ducks out at the shooters feet - she is still is a bit unreliable but heaps better.
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delivery

Postby Lynne Strang » Mon 04 Oct 2004 9:36 pm

Hi Prue,
I have found that sometimes a young dog may respond to the handler bending their legs or bobbing down to make a lower and less threatening outline.
I also work on delivery separate from retrieving by using a dumbell placed in the dog's mouth with "hold " wait, here , " give". I reward with food and praise for delivery to hand. No retrieve at this stage as the dog may think they are in trouble for retrieving.
One positive aspect of this problem is that it often shows a soft mouthed dog - much easier to work on than a dog that grips the bird and freezes!
Hope this is helpful.
Lynne
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Postby Diane McCann » Tue 05 Oct 2004 9:36 am

Hi Suzie,

Just teach it separately for longer. You sound as though you are doing all of the right things but may be going back to a retrieve too soon.

Once you are very certain that the dog understands that it must hold until commanded to give, (in all non retrieving situations such as sit - stay, recall on and off lead, after a heeling pattern, etc.), then introduce a very short retrieve.

If the dog drops the dummy at this stage you can safely reprimand and correct without impacting on the retrieve as you are certain that the dog knows what is required, what the command hold means, etc. and will therefore relate the correction to the dropping and not to the retrieving.

Be careful that your food reward is not being taken as a reward for giving rather than holding, lots of slow pats and gentle praise while the dog is holding and presenting, rahter than when it gives.

Now those that have watched my dogs trial will wonder what on earth I am doing giving advice on delivery!!!

Good luck,

Diane
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Postby Gareth Tawton » Thu 07 Oct 2004 9:15 am

Suzie,

Dianne is spot on!!!! Not finishing FF will often show up in problems later, sometime earlier it appears. I am sure there is one or two people with some FF expeirance coming over for the Tas champ. Maybe you could get them to give you some help with your FF problems.

Unfortunatley I wont be in Tas as my new bird boy or girl is due around then. Pro training here I come :!:

Gareth
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Delivery

Postby Alan Donovan » Sat 09 Oct 2004 10:23 am

Hi Susie

Advice from Prue looks good - we usually create holding problems by being to keen to take the dummy from the dog too soon, and then praising for the release. This will confuse the dog when it realises that releasing can also be an undesirable act.

I have referred to my trusty old training book (first published 1848) by Gen Hutchinson. He did not get involved in any of the sort of ear pinching, toe tweaking, etc of the "Force Fetch", or even of anything involving electric shock therapy. His advice was to use what we now call positive reinforcement (food rewards) and:

"Observe that there are four distinct stages in this trick of carrying: the first, making the dog grasp and retain; the second, inducing him to bring, following at your heels; the third, teaching him not to quit his hold when you stop; the fourth, getting him to deliver into your hand on your order"

Further training tips from the 19th century available on request! Call me old fashioned if you like...........

Good to hear you gave up on the ear pinching.

Cheers - Alan
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thanks for the advice everyong

Postby Susie Partridge » Sun 10 Oct 2004 5:07 pm

thanks for the advice everyone, I'm plugging along with it - did have a win today - three short retrieves without even looking like droping it!!
women are fickle sometime eh??
We've got 16 entries for the State Champs and I'm planning on asking all of them for help!!!
cheers
Susie
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Postby Bill Bailey » Mon 18 Apr 2005 11:18 pm

Hi Susie
I agree with Alan Donovan and his ideas. I think that there are a few things you could try.
1 When your dog is returning with retrieve do not look directly at the dog. Some dogs seem to "go to pieces" when looked at directly by handler. Just imagine your feelings approaching someone 3 times your height if you were not too sure that you were doing the right thing.
Far better to look down, move the next dummy about a bit while in your hand.
2 Make the first retrieve a quarter or less of its usual length, start to turn and run away a etre or two, encourage dog to follow after you. Accept delivery at the side as you go, a time or two. What you are trying to do is give your dog something else to think about, rather than letting dog think about whether to spit it out or deliver correctly.
3 Body language if you are anxious or uptight your dog will read your body language, without any trouble and also become anxious and uptight and "rattled", like a small child. If your body language is giving you away and you cannot change it, at least try to hide it. Try eating a biscuit your dog might that a good distraction.
3 Get away from retrieving dummies etc, get your dog to pick up its lead (suitably coiled up and secured by you) and retrieve that to you, over a short distance without immediate delivery but rather a walk to the front gate. Take correct delivery of lead at front gate and then take your dog for a short relaxing walk.
Good luck Bill Bailey
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