RETRIEVING AUSTRALIA FORUM

As we haven't had a training question for a while, I thought I'd start the new year off with this one.

How does everyone begin teaching their dogs to understand the concepts of two birds and double falls?

Happy New Year everyone.

Leanne

I have been waiting with interest to read the responses to Leanne's question. Come on learned handlers, where are you?

Diane

leanne
I will share my method for what it is worth. Alot will depend on the way you structure your training as to what point you introduce the 2 bird and the the double fall concepts.I begin 2 birds on my 3 legged lining pattern.It helps alot to have a catapult but it is not essential.Inintially they are thrown directly behind the handler and right in front of the dogs vision.you can gradually move them around so they are 90 degrees to the returning dog and gradually increase the distance from the handler.One word of warning! make sure that you have built in all the other all age concepts first on your 3 legged pattern. Your dog should be able to do blinds under the arc of a mark and handle reliably at very large distances.2 birds and double falls erode the skills of a good marking dog
. Double falls actually penalize a hard running focused marking dog however as they are in the rule book we have to unfortunately train for them. remember that often double falls are let go when the dog is in water.This seems to me to be a fairer method of putting this run on.It is very difficult for judges to get this run right and they have to rely on their stewarts to release the bird at exactly they time that they indicate.
Go back to your backpile and re establish.
have your helper stand behind the backpile and mark it for your dog
once your dog has just left you have your helper lob a short mark out to one side. let the dog see it and blow the whistle
handle on to the backpile
remember send for the backpile on back and to the double fall on fetch or the dogs name
gradually decrease the distance from the double fall to the backpile until your dog is faced with making a good decision
now transfer the drill to your 3 legged lining pattern and slowly build up the complexity until your dog will run over the top of a double fall ot pick up a mark from 100 metres away
take the concept to a new area and retry it
when your dog is reliable in at least 6 different locations and in varying weather and terrain begin to cut down drastically the number runs you put on using 2bird and double fall concepts
I hope this helps Leanne

Leanne,

Unlike Peter I teach the basic mechanics of dble falls and 2 birds much earlier. With a couple of month old pups I teach dble marks 2birds, dble falls etc while they are still on a light check cord. This way they can learn the "rules" early while still under my control in a fun atmosphere. Everything happens at only 10 or 15 meters. I will often use the corner of the house (one bird down one side of the house and another down the other) to stop the pup from switching.

Remember there is no point doing any of this stuff in the real world if you can't stop your dog on the whistle. Just about everything we require from a retriever is taught with the use of the stop whistle. All lessons should be put to one side if the dog slips the whistle and deal with the slipped whistle then proceed with the lesson.

If you are training an older dog who already has bad habits try standing in an open gate and throwing one bird in each paddock so the fence prevents the dog from switching.

Regards,

gareth

Well I don't know about Leanne but I am very grateful for both responses. Two different approaches and both with excellent ideas and guide lines, thanks for sharing.

My dog is inclined to spit out the bird he is holding when I fire at the two bird (only on land). At the last trial (much to the amusement of many) I managed to stop him from doing this by calling him repeatedly from the time he picked up the first bird.

Do you think the fence idea would work Gareth? He would know the fence was there and that he is unable to switch, I suppose but it may reinforce the correct behavior.

Diane

Diane,

If the fence is good enough this method enforces good behaviour. even if he still wants to switch he has to come past you to get around the fence. Dogs are creatures of habit and breaking a bad habit is often very difficult. Take barking in the morning when the household is up feeding a baby and not letting the dogs out straight away Now that is a difficult habit to stop

As for the dropping the bird bit try stopping him with the bird in his mouth before sending the two bird up. this might break his routine a bit as well.

good luck and let us know how it goes,

Gareth

I have to agree Diane, good responses.

Further to Leanne's and Diane's questions, I'd like to ask something of those out there who judge.

Ideally on Two Bird retrieves a dog should stop, acknowledge the fall then return promptly to the handler. How severely do you penalise a dog if the handler calls/whistles the dog in ONCE (sorry Diane!) as a precaution.

I ask because my young dog is still inclined to take a stroke or two in the direction of a Two Bird in water and needless to say, I am cautious by nature!

Teresap

Sent Leanne an e-mail that this topic was partly covered by the discussion on "stopping to shot" which is a post about 16 posts below this one as in both scenarios getting the dog to stop to shot is the main thing.

Agree with Gareth that getting the dog to stop on recall with a bird in the mouth without any distraction is the start if you have a dog that spits the bird out when it sees the second one. Later just toss the second bird in front of yourself and gradually work away as the dog gets the idea. Dont use commands such as pick it up or fetch if the dog spits the bird out as it can often then go and pick the second one up! Walk forward and place the first bird back in the dogs mouth and command hold, retreat a little way, call dog to hand and then send for the second one.

I think you would only lose a point if you called ONCE as a precaution, Teresa, but you have to lose a point when compared to someone who does not need to say anything. Learn to trust your dog!!!

Maureen