How long before I send?

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How long before I send?

Postby Kelly Picker » Mon 25 Apr 2005 11:17 am

Hello, sorry for lengthy question, :lol: but here it comes, How long should I be waiting before I send my dog for a retrieve? I generally wait till the bird has landed ( approx. 3 sec) after shot. Should I be sending him at the same time for every retrieve?? or should I mix it up and make him wait longer? Also if a bird falls in heavy cover would it help to send him earlier ie. when bird is still in air perhaps to help with the mark? He runs very hard so perhaps he needs to wait for the mark?? :? :? Also I find if I'm doing a longer retrieve and make him wait a little before sending he gets super keen and runs even harder but then doesn't seem to mark the fall as well!!!!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Postby Joe Law » Mon 25 Apr 2005 7:45 pm

Kelly, I think I have met you at a training day at an Erskine Park training day and you have a fairly full-on chocolate lab. I think I would be holding your dog on the mark for as long as possible as long as he remains focused on the area of the fall. Usually, dogs that break or are too quick to retrieve seem to lose their way more than those that remain steady and focused on the mark. Eventually, you would need to train your dog on multiple retrieves and your dog will need to be conditioned to remaining steady and focused while more than one bird is cast. Generally, slower dogs need to be handled more speedily, but if my memory is accurate about your dog you could try holding him back and see if his memory for the mark improves. Good luck, and maybe we will see you competing at a trial soon.
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Postby Bob Pickworth » Tue 26 Apr 2005 10:30 pm

Kelly, I have had many problems to overcome with the three dogs I have run at NSRT, but fortuantely breaking to shot has not (yet) been one of them. My limited experience is that if the dog has watched the bird hit the ground and is fixed on the spot and not shown a tendency to break, then to leave him/ her watching that spot for several seconds actually helps to anchor in the dogs mind the location of the bird.
If the dog has a tendency to break, a long lead that jerks him back to "heel" may well solve the problem. As with most aspects of training (life), there is a fine line between control and directing natural instinct / enthusiasm.
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How long to wait before sending him to retrieve

Postby Bill Bailey » Wed 27 Apr 2005 1:54 pm

Your judgement determines how long you "hold your dog" after you have fired at the game. With practice both you and your dog soon will learn to do what is needed pretty quickly. If the judge thinks you are taking too long and penalises you, that is no concern of yours. Your concern is to help your dog work as perfectly as possible, as a matter of habit. You will be surprised how quickly the following can become a matter of habit for both of you.
Your dog has to learn to do several things before and after the shot at a marked retrieve.
In my experience dogs soon learn to naturally mark the general area and then go to a downwind position to use their sense of smell to locate the game. This is of tremendous importance in a shooting situation, to help ensure recovery of wounded game, as quickly as possible.
With experience dogs that have plenty of practice on retrieving dummies/bumpers will soon learn to mark more closely. But the ability to work more widely is still of enormous value in situations where "game" is not found where expected, by the dog. Dogs needs practice in both situations
Before you get ready to fire at a mark, your dog needs to be given a brief opportunity to get the general picture of what is in front of him, before the game is cast. With experience he will learn to look in the same direction as you are. After the game falls he needs to mark the area as closely as he can and also determine in his mind the best way to reach the downwind point from which he can expect to succesfully wind the game on that retrieve.
So you need to develop a technique with your dog at the firing point that is suitable for all occasions and that is a matter of habit.
Once I had a better idea of how I could help my dog, I tried never to break his concentration on the fall by moving after I had fired at the game, until I felt that my dog had marked the fall. I generally fired at the game while it was going up and then held my position with the barrel of the gun aimed in the direction of the fall. After a few seconds wait, while I tried to memorise the fall, I would slowly lower and then quietly "break the gun".
If it was a double mark I would always complete the first mark as indicated above, then I would turn and tackle the next "mark". If as a result my dog had to do a blind find on the second one, then that was what we did.
I am firmly of the opinion that it is folly to run the risk of spoiling completion of one task so that you can probably hurriedly make a mess of something else as well.
I think the secret of success with a retriever is a bit like building a brick wall. Every brick is put in place correctly before you tackle the next brick. If you have an enthusiastic and steady dog just keep it that way. At the end of the day enthusiasm plus obedience is a combination that is hard to beat. The hard part is achieving it, so if you already have it hold on to the enthusiasm and gradually develop the obedience.
PS Never forget that your dog does not know where the game will be thrown from. He may have picked up a movement in a different area. He therefore may not see the fall unless he gets a clue from the direction in which you fire.
As a Novice you do not have worry about more complicated retrieves for a while but you do need to establish sound habits of work that will benefit you now and in the future.
The hard part of training is get it done correctly the first time and every time. The easy part is to create bad habits and general confusion.
Every dog has to learn "Controlled Enthusiasm", it has to learn to keep its own brake on its enthusiasm and learn to mark each fall as needed, kowing that it will be sent to retrieve enthusiastically, when the handler says so. By the sound of things you are off to a good start.
Regards Bill Bailey
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Postby Graeme Parkinson » Thu 28 Apr 2005 8:53 pm

Kelly

We have a trial at Marulan in May, why don't you come and have a look.
Introduce yourself to everyone, I'm sure you will get plenty of advice.

Graeme
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Postby Joanne Hagan » Fri 29 Apr 2005 7:45 am

Great idea Graeme
We've also got trials in Canberra next weekend too - we're only an hour down the road from Goulburn :D
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