Is force fetching masking a natural instinct

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Is force fetching masking a natural instinct

Postby Bob Pickworth » Sat 30 Apr 2005 5:17 am

Is the trend towards F.F. masking a dogs inability to deliver gently to hand by conditioning or is it fine tuning the instinct and eradicating bad habits (hard mouth, dropping, blinking etc)? If so, is FF the easy way to train to produce a dog that is good at taking and holding a line?
Bob Pickworth
 
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Postby FOM - Lainee » Thu 07 Jul 2005 1:44 am

Bob,

First sorry for not replying sooner, but I only check this forum out once in a while....

I'm of the opinion that FF does NOT mask a dog's natural ability - in my humble opinion it helps send a clear picture to the dog of what you expect it to do in the field - its black and white. If a dog is going to have hard mouth issues, it will have it even if its been properly FFed - a dog with a gentle hold is nice, but sometimes those gentle holds turn into birds being dropped and if its a cripple who's to say it won't get away. FF is just another tool to help your retriever understand its job clearly.

FF has absolutely nothing to do with taking and holding a line.

FF provides a starting point for a dog to understand how to handle pressure - I think you are connecting the dots of FF and FTP (Force To a Pile). Yes these two drills go hand in hand but its really has nothing to do with taking and holding a line - its helps clearly teach a dog - go when sent regardless and understand that pressure can be worked through. Taking a line and holding it is a by product of this drill but that's because the dog knows where the pile is so there is no mystery to their destination, once you venture into pattern blinds, memory blinds, cold blinds sometimes that nice initial line will hold out, but its not something you can take to the bank.

You get those fine lines with other drills like wagon wheel, pattern blinds ect. Also during those drills little pressure should be used because you are teaching the dog - FTP you are teaching the dog about pressure so you have to use some form of it. Eventually if you taught the dog how to handle pressure and you had a T/TT drill pattern that was longer vs. short those nice lines will come together when you transition all of the yard work to the field.

Keep in mind this is coming from a nobody in the world of retrievers in the USA.....so take it for what its worth....

Lainee, Flash and Bullet
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Postby Alan Donovan » Sat 29 Oct 2005 8:23 am

FOM - Lainee wrote:Bob,


FF has absolutely nothing to do with taking and holding a line.

Lainee, Flash and Bullet


Hi Bob

There are a range of opinions on this. Check out Robert Milner's website:

http://www.fetchpup.com

He has some interesting ideas in the section on Force Fetching, eg

"Force Fetch as Foundation for Field Trial Lining

Force fetch training is done on nearly all field trial dogs in America because of the importance of lining to the field trial dog. If you don’t plan on running field trials, and your dog delivers to hand, and is gentle with birds then you do not need to force fetch train him.

If you are going to run field trials and want to win then you should force fetch train pup. The force fetch training is the foundation behavior for lining and is a necessary first step for forcing pup on lines. "

Cheers - Alan
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