The Question of Length of Runs

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The Question of Length of Runs

Postby Kerry Webster » Fri 28 Nov 2003 8:34 pm

I was having a conversation with other triallers, whilst in Tasmania recently, (some of which are retrieving judges), concerning how to determine the maximum length of a run in a trial.

The subject in the rule book states that "the maximum distance for any retrieve will be 150 metres", and,"it is desirable in a Novice Stake that runs be not more than 100 metres".

During the conversation, I chipped in, that a good many runs, particularly in All Age, I consider to be over length, and I wondered just how many judges had actually paced out the maximum, 150 metres.

Another person, (a judge), stated that the rule book did not give an exact description of how to measure the 150 metre distance, and questioned, should the distance be line of sight, or ground measure.

This set me thinking, and my reply is, if my dog or, all of our dogs, could fly to retrieve the birds, then line of sight would be OK. But, I think the stated rule is specific to dogs actually having four feet on the ground, and this would dictate the distance of each retrieve to be a ground measure, and not, a line of sight.

Obviously, on a line of sight mark or blind, with a deep valley between control point and the bird, the dog would actually be travelling 50 - 100% greater the distance than the l.o.s. distance, making a 200 to 300 metre retrieve.
Again, outside the rules.

Any comments on this ?????

Kerry
Kerry Webster
 
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The question of the length of runs

Postby Alan Donovan » Sat 29 Nov 2003 7:28 am

Hi Kerry - Never been very good at walking on water, so pacing out distances does not always work for me. But I use a simple method. As a golfer I can hit a sand wedge a maximum of 100 metres. I adjust the estimate of range in golf to allow for wind direction, and up or down hill. In judging dogs I allow for up and down gullies. So a novice run is a sand wedge - and similarly, if I would not "get there" with a six iron it is too far for Restricted and All Age. Because that is my 150 metre stick.

On the other hand I train up to 200 metres, because I don't want the dogs working at their limits at 150 metres (perish the thought, but a judge might put on a run that is a tad long - and I would not want to add to my reputation as a "protester"). Except that I have not actually tried a "back" at 200 metres, in case I never see the dog again....

I suppose in Victoria they don't do 150 metre marks - due to rain and snow they can't see that far. Not a problem in Queensland.

Cheers - Alan d
(or "donovan" for short)
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Postby Kerry Webster » Sat 29 Nov 2003 11:31 am

Hi Alan,

What a good idea !!! Using your golf hit to estimate length. I wonder how the others get their lengths.

Must remember that about using my golf clubs if and when I get to judge.

I agree with you on the training. I have done training runs of more than 200 metres, but that is not to say I want to confront one in a trial situation.

Can other judges enlighten us as to how they estimate length in their runs ?

Kerry
Kerry Webster
 
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Joined: Sat 16 Nov 2002 1:23 pm
Location: Boddington, Western Australia

Postby Gareth Tawton » Sat 29 Nov 2003 10:50 pm

Kerry,

I would have to say that I would be in favour of the line of sight method not the ground covered. In areas of steep gullies and ravines a mark may be only 40 meters away in line of site but 150 over the terrain on foot. I doubt you would see many protests about the distance as the mark should be of good quality. The rules don't seem specific so I would hope we could leave this one to the judges discretion. I think Alans golf analogy is great. I'm not to up to date on the rules of golf, except that when driving if you dont make it past the ladies tee as a male its your shout at the bar!! I'm not sure if Golf uses line of sight or a ground measure either but I think its line of site. In any case with my driver I have a shocking slice so does that mean all my runs can be over distance if your dogs fades right!!!

Any way on a serious note I think this is one that needs to be left a little open to allow for terrain variances.

Gareth
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Postby Kerry Webster » Tue 02 Dec 2003 1:46 pm

Thanks for your input Gareth. I agree with you that we, the competitors, have to leave it up to the judges discretion in determining the length of a run. I just wondered how many judges have actually paced out 150 metres, and 100 metres, and not necessarily whilst setting a run, to visibly see the boundarys of the measurement.

I did this in one of my paddocks at home, and, again on the driveway, and now I know exactly how long 150 metres is.

At our golf club it is not line of sight measurements off the tee to the cup, it is actual distance walked in a straight line. I only wish my golf ball knew that.

With the terrain difference between Western Australia, and what I have seen on my travels to the Eastern states, there appears to be more inclination over there for max. distance marks and blinds. Over here, we don't have too many opportunities for these length of retrieves on the grounds presently used, but, using dense cover, and asking the dog to use its head, nose, ears and eyes, is commonplace. Because our judges insist on a skyline for long marks, the density of the terrain often limits this, therefore shortening the length of the retrieve slightly.
But, as I have found out on many an occasion, shorter is often more !!
Just like me !!

Kerry
Kerry Webster
 
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat 16 Nov 2002 1:23 pm
Location: Boddington, Western Australia


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