training two pups at the same time - a good or bad idea?

[Paula Davidson]

G'day everyone,
wondered if anyone who has trained two pups at the same time can give me their opinion about it - a good or bad idea?
paula davidson

[Wendy Michalk]

Hi Paula,
I have kept 2 GSP pups ( some would say there in lies my problem ) that are now 4 1/2 years old my experience has taught me that if you train 2 pups at the same time, it will take you longer to achieve your goals, because you are always splitting your time between 2 dogs for training, my personal time is not limited & I'm lucky to be in a training group that don't mind me having 2 dogs to run, but I find having the energy to put 2 dogs through each workout is often difficult. My 2 have progressed at different stages & as I often focused on one dog the other would lag. They are both in All Age & hopefully will hold their own, however my male is now in the capable hands of Dom Colasimone & the dogs are both putting it together much faster. I wouldn't personnaly train 2 pups of the same age again.
On the other hand I have a Flatcoat( a year more advanced) that I also run & running her & my GSP girl is great I get 2 bites at each run, love it.
cheers Wendy

[Paula Davidson]

Thanks very much Wendy.

[Gareth Tawton]

Hi Paula,

To the best of my knowledge there has only been a very limited number of people to train 2 pups at the same time and get good results. Russell Whitechurch has, he might be able to give you some advice. I suspect to be successful you need to be a great trainer and have plenty of time. If that is you go for it otherwise concentrate on getting one right before adding two to the mix.

Gareth

[Paula Davidson]

Thanks Gareth.
My query has its basis in the past experience of my Dad and I training a pup each (so not 1 trainer with 2 pups, but 2 trainers with 2 pups). What we found was that for retrieving training, the pups drove each other and the competition between them accelerated their learning. But then the basic obedience training was imdividual. The basic obedience training of 2 together might be a very big problem.
kind regards,
paula

[Wendy Michalk]

Hi again Paula
I & dom, my training partner had litter brothers (we train a lot together), yes did exactly as you said kept us both trainig & pushing our pups did the basics separately much different to trying 2 pups on my own. As Gareth said Russel has done really well & I always marvel at his results he obviously has great training skills .
cheers Wendy

[Paula Davidson]

Yes i can see the difficulty. It's just that I have 2 ripper males from Rosie's litter and can't decide between them!

[Prue Winkfield]

Run both on until about 6 months that might give you an idea. We all think Russell W is a marvel and he can't understand why we all can't train more than one pup at a time!

[Robert Tawton]

Hi Paula,

Conventional wisdom suggests that training two pups at the same time is of itself not the issue, aside from requiring nearly twice the training time, the problem lies in the difficulty in keeping the twp pups separated from each other. The more time the two pups are allowed to associate with each other, the more they will bond with each other and more than likely at the expense of bonding with you. Developing that bond where the dog is fully focused on you and is not distracted by the presence of its litter mate is the key to success. It requires and enormous level on commitment on your part to have two pups and to consistently keep the two apart so that you can deal with each on a totally separate and personal basis – best of luck if you can!
Regarding picking the best pup; the advice from some of the best retriever trainers in the US is to purchase the best genetics you can afford, then put your hand over your eyes and grab a pup. Not very scientific, but in essence it has worked for me.

Kindest regards, Robert T

[Diane McCann]

The foolproof way to pick the best pup in the litter Rob is to never have anything to do with any of the other pups after they have gone to new homes. That way you can feel very secure that the amazing pup that you kept is definitely the best!

[Paula Davidson]

Thank you Bob for sharing your wisdom and Dianne your wit. I have taken both to heart and am selling on one of the boys.

[Elio Colasimone]

Hi Paula,
Re: Running on littermates.
Just to add a little twist to all the sensible things that have been said about running on littermates.
Keep in mind this is in the context of using GSPs for hunting and retrieving/field trialling :-
I have kept 2 or more pups a little longer at times simply because I wanted more time to choose.
Once I kept 2 boys until they were 4-5 months. Kept one.
On another occasion I kept 2 boys 1 girl for 9 months.. Kept one.
I currently have boy/girl for 4 years straight. Hunting competence is ok, field trial competence seems ok and both are starting to settle into All Age - with more work to be done. Am Keeping both for work and breeding.
Yes, each scenario was doable and not particularly draining in time and effort .
For sure -there are very solid arguments suggesting -concentrate on one and get the best you can out of it.
However, strange as it may seem there are some advantages in running litter mates ( or at least having 2 trained dogs at your disposal) .... if you can afford the food, vet bills and have the necessary spare time on your hands.
Hunting in less than ideal conditions (heat/humidity) can quickly lower efficiency ( ground coverage, nose work, retrieving etc) and having the luxury of 2 prepared dogs offers the bonus of rotating dogs to increases efficiency in both game finding and retrieving and doesn’t knock your dogs around too much.
If one dog is unwell or off key for whatever reason –or in the worst case scenario – you lose one - you have a backup.
In competition - Retrieving/Field you have two bites at the cherry.
As far as preparation for competition is concerned re: obedience, handling, concept development, drilling etc. etc. an interesting thing starts to happen.
As Bob mentioned individual time spent with each dog is crucial. They are treated as distinct and separate entities. Only during some of the field work are they allowed to work together.
The early bonding distraction seems to peter out as they become more interested in the games you play with them.
Re: quantity of work...some I’ve noticed love and thrive on repetition....while a few seem to travel equally as well with less.
You can only give each dog half the amount of time. This truly forces you to really “focus” the mind on what exactly you are trying to achieve with each and the most effective way of doing it -hopefully with the emphasis on quality and enough quantity (repetition) to get the job done properly. In other words well thought out programmes of development designed for each. Much of it is exactly the same while bits and pieces are tweaked for each dog.
It’s not simply a case of will I be able to give them enough preparation each but can I give them enough of the “right” preparation.
Yes...it is doable - running littermates for competition.
There is also an added bonus - if it gets too much - you’ve got a spare, lovely, “prepared gundog” to sell for good money !!!
Usually anyone prepared to pay good money for a “prepared gundog ” looks after them very well.

Cheers..all...Elio

[Paula Davidson]

Thanks Elio,
I wish I'd read this before I'd sold the second male. Too late to reneg now. I'll try and convince the shooter who bought the second dog and who picks him up tomorrow, to join us at the Trials. I'm probably biased, but I think the dog I have sold him has heaps of potential. I would have loved the opportunity to train him.
I doubt I'll ever get two such good dogs from the same litter again, but if I do, I'll give it a try.
Cheers,
Paula